Something new sorta.....F series 110s

NachtPiloten

NachtPiloten

Kurier auf Stube...pauke!
Staff member
As we march toward a new TOW era, here is a stop gap transitional interceptor the Luftwaffe made in late 1942 and early 1943 Bf110 F4. The F4 was the first true nightfighter made solely for that role. It was a serious upgrade from the E series with much more powerful engines, larger tail fins, FuG 212 AI, and additional crew. The plane did not upgrade the weapons it had except for the addition of a gun pod with 2 MG 151 20mm cannon to augment the MG17 and the two MG 151 20 cannon in the nose. This plane is a Frankenstein as I used Mathias's E and G series planes to make this one happen. It uses his E series fuselage, the G series wings and engines and the beta cockpits from the G series the Ground Grew released years ago. John did the skins for this and two others that we will release. This has working radar thanks to Steve. I will tinker a bit more to add controllable landing lights to it. As with all the bf110s the front slats work, albeit I made these work with the flaps. not so realistic but unless we can animate due to speed best I can do.
 

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Compiling a list of Bf110F-4s that the NJG geschwarder's had. This is just NJG1. Of course not all were operational; these are nominal 'on the books' numbers. see https://www.ww2.dk/

NJG1

Stab
10/42 F-4 2
11/42 F-4 2
1242 F-4 2
2/43 F-4 1
3/43 F-4 1
4/43 F-4 1

I/NJG1
9/42 F-4 14
10/42 F-4 18
1142 F-4 21
12/42 F-4 19
1/4 3 F-4 22
2/43 F-4 22
3/43 F-4 19
4/43 F-4 10

II/NJG1
9/42 F-4 7
10/42 F-4 14
11/42 F-4 18
12/42 F-4 20
1/43 F-4 19
2/43 F-4 18
3/43 F-4 15
4/43 F-4 15
5/43 F-4 9
6/43 F-4 7

III/NJG1
9/42 F-4 16
10/42 F-4 14
11/42 F-4 19
12/42 F-4 23
1/43 F-4 20
2/43 F-4 19
3/43 F-4 17
4/43 F-4 14

IV/NJG1
10/42 F-4 18
11/42 F-4 17
12/42 F-4 21
1/43 F-4 23
2/43 F-4 24
3/43 F-4 18
4/43 F-4 15
5/43 F-4 5
 
Pat Pattle said:
Thanks. I've only seen this sort of exhaust on the radial engined ones though, not on the Merlin-engined Lancs, hence the query. Always happy to learn something new :) .
Click to expand...
German over-engineering Clive, although from what I understand, these particular dampers were more effective at damping the flames than most, as they allowed cool air to enter not only from the front but halfway down at the top which helped a lot with the damping effect.
 
In fact quite the opposite Gents. Earlier simple dampers didn't do the job well, so these type were developed. But, they found that not only did they reduce power, the greatly increased overheating on the exhaust side of the engine, so they introduced the extra venting in the system (as John says), which partially defeated the object! The engines became worn out earlier through heat stress, erzatz oil/fuel used, and long full throttle 'catch-up' chases with fast(-ish) aircraft ie Mossies, Lancs and Halifaxs. So an earlier E/F 110 NF w/o dampers could do 320+mph, later F/Gs with dampers, radar aerials, schrage muzik, armoured glass, three man crews (Achtung Moskito!!) etc could barely manage 275mph. That's top speed, so cruise was in the low/mid 200mph. Bearing in mind that a Mossie bomber would cruise about 275mph+, and a Lanc would be at 175...and after bombing would be in a gentle dive going home at about 200mph+.

The complaints were even worse with the Ju88 night fighters, top speed down to about 240mph, cruise about 210mph, and many shot down by Mossies, flying at speeds in the 150mph area.

Very nice model and great tex, many thanks. Looking forward to the NF series...

Cheers

Shessi
 
The speed figures you quote - where did you get them? The JU88 (G6 series), in nightfighter format Brown was able to go 400 mph with dampers - albeit no ammo and light on crew so figure what 380- I was surprised to read this but why would he lie. Now the earlier C6 that was around 280-290, cruise around 265. In his recount of his nightfighter sorties Wilhelm Johnen stated that the Mossie had about 100 kph on the bf110G4. So if the Mossie was able to go around 370-380 (if higher then just readjust I guess) this puts the G4s around 310 or so. I have a data sheet from the RLM on a G4 with SN2 - shows top speed at 2600 rpm at 1.3 ata around 480 kph or 298 mph. However the db 605 was rated at max output with 1.42 ata at 2700 rpm which would get you around 310 or so, maybe a bit more. Now we get to Brown, he flew the bf110G4 at Hendon, and was able to get 368 - but without the external fuel tanks and not sure about aerials. The tanks and aerial would get it down to about 330, if they were not there. Again, why would Brown mislead us. The He 219 was able to get to 365 with SN2 - German RLM data. Brown was able to get about this too. All of Brown's data were for war worn examples of the various marks.

But really, the Lanc had a top speed of supposedly 280, but in stream they flew around 200 to avoid collisions. Never read of a Lanc or Halifax outrunning a Bf110 but who knows. Consistently the German log books recount the bordfunker telling (yelling at) the pilot to slow down and not over shoot the bomber.

The best recounting of the top speed of The German planes I think was Adler, he was always well below what others were saying, therefore I exclusively use his numbers when making the planes. If I remember correctly I modeled that C6 at about 280, the G1 around 310, the G6 around 330-340, this F4 about 311 and the 219s around 360. All my Lancasters and Halifaxes top out around 280 or a bit less.

My two cents worth...well maybe 1 cent.
 

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And ..... the he 219 series. The A2 was recorded to go 605 w/o aerials, knockoff 20-30 kph 585-575 and you have 357-363 w aerials. If the Germans ever got the Jumo 222 series engines to work we see over 700 kph or 434 w/o aerials.
 

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All speeds for aircraft have been historically continually over stated. Unfortunately it's no good quoting manufacturers/ RLM figures, as these were for new ac, without full equipment and had not been flogged to death during war. All manufacturers want the customer to see the best figures (ever got that MPG or top speed they quoted in your car?). The figures I've quoted are just ball-park general figures based on years of reading and research, using first hand accounts, biographies etc, as you've used, and from many many reads of ORBS and claims report from the National Archives, from NF encounters and bomber squadrons. I'm not saying my figures are exact (I'm no expert), but I think they are far closer to the average real speeds of the ac.

It all depends what source of figures you use, but Brown (Wings of the LW), yes, states he gets 400mph out of a G6. But that's a almost certainly a 213 engined G6, which there were few G6's produced and very few fitted with the 213 engines. The standard late G1 with 801's would have an manufacturers original top speed of about 344mph, add on full equipment, crew etc, and the real figure would be....?

As for Brown's flight in a 110G4, he gets an eyebrow raising 368mph(!), where everywhere else states about 342mph max and a max cruise of 317mph. Pilots would not fly around at max anything, as engines became so tired/unreliable, they needed to loitre, so economic flying was vital. It's not about how fast, it's the stern chases over many miles. If a Lanc is going home from Berlin, flying about 200mph, and the NF flying at 250mph, and 100 miles behind (having not been in the stream), he would catch it up at, say, the Dutch coast, or at 300mph and he would catch it at Osnabruck..200 miles away. They couldn't flying for long periods at high speed or max cruise, as engines regularily overheated and failed. Obviously if in the bomber stream, then all you need is a small excess of speed of the target, that's why the experten were so keen to get off first, and get good indications of the target and direction of the bomber stream.

I like your speed settings for the ac you quoted, I think very reasonable, but they are max speeds (which would rarely be used). Who know's for sure! ;)

Just one shelf, I'm sure you have the same library....ha ha!NF Books.jpg
 
Yes, they're not a bad read, a subject not often written about from the Luftwaffe's point of view. Lots of pics. There's also an Eagles over North Africa and the Mediterranean.

M, haven't we all! ha ha...
 
The Bf 110F-4 you did is very interesting ,and a wonderful addition to the series. i'm sure that these Bf 110's will be nice as your other work. Thanks guys. Regards, Scott
 
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