Spitfire Question

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OldCrow

Charter Member
Did Supermarine ever make a Spitfire with the Merlin 100 series?

I know the DeHaviland Hornet used the Merlin 130s rated at 2030HP. I would assume that a spitfire with a Merlin 130 would perform as good as a Mk14 "Griffon" spit, but with better handling.

How about the Spitfire 16 with Packard built Merlin V-1650-9 or-11s similair to the P-51H and Ls? They had over 2200HP.
 
No, they didn't. The Mk VIII was the ultimate Merlin version and it had the normal 60 series engines. The most powerful ones though were the ones running with the 150 grade "rocket fuel" with some 25 pounds of boost, nearly 2000 horses on the loose from the Merlin 66 and climbing at well over 5.000 feet per minute at sea level.
 
The Merlins mostly had updraught carburettors, which is why the carburettor air intake is a scoop underneath the engine cowling. The Merlin 130/131, and for that matter the 134/135 in the Sea Hornet, had downdraught carburettors drawing air from wing leading edge intakes. To use these engines in the Spitfire would have meant some serious redesigning of the aircraft's nose.

But they were really pretty on the Hornet...


dh-103-21-b.jpg
 
Squiffy said:
Sweet. I wish I had boost. I see a scoop on that Charger OldCrow. You runnin' boost?
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Sorry, no boost. It really doesn't need it. She's a beast as is.

The scoop is standard on SRT8 Chargers. It isn't an intake for the engine, but does force air down into the engine bay, past the headers, to keep the underhood temps down a bit. I don't think it really works though, but I like the looks of it anyway.:jump:
 
hairyspin said:
The Merlins mostly had updraught carburettors, which is why the carburettor air intake is a scoop underneath the engine cowling. The Merlin 130/131, and for that matter the 134/135 in the Sea Hornet, had downdraught carburettors drawing air from wing leading edge intakes. To use these engines in the Spitfire would have meant some serious redesigning of the aircraft's nose.

But they were really pretty on the Hornet...
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Oh, that's interesting. How did they do that on the P-51H? It doesn't look like it has any different type of intake. Wasn't that engine (V-1650-9) based on the Merlin 100 series?
 
The Packard Merlins were Merlin 6x (mostly) engines built under licence and all had updraught carburettors. The 1650-9 had water/methanol injection afaik.

The Mustang's intake is below the spinner, right at the nose but under the cowling. The big scoop under the fuselage is for the engine and oil coolers.

p51_tuskegee6_640.jpg



As you'll see in the Hornet pic, the intakes are on the wing leading edge, outboard of the engines.
 
From what I've understood, the V-1650-1 was a Merlin 28, the V-1650-3 a Merlin 63, the V-1650-7 a Merlin 66 and from the V-1650-9 onwards still structurally the Merlin 66 with changes to the fuel injection and emergency power applications.
 
Love to see how that specced out against a mossie. Probably a better turner and king of climb. Sure, nothing like cubic inches to take care of business, Old Crow. Maybe look into mounting a small lip spoiler behind and under the radiator to cause a vaccuum and help pull air through the radiator and scoop. May already have one on the underpan. Lots of cars do nowadays. Got to be carefull to get the pressure gradients right. Some people screw up their intercoolers and basic radiators messin with aerodynamics. Some turbulence is good for cooling. If you have a portable or remote barometer you can check while driving.
 
The similarities between Mossie and Hornet are interesting, but with over 4000hp and significantly less weight, the Hornet was faster, climbed quicker and had longer range than the Mosquito - except the Mosquito PR.34 which had a range of 3500 miles. It would have, the bomb bay became a monster fuel tank.

The big difference in handling between the two was the Hornet's complete lack of swing on take-off: the Merlins were handed (like the P-38 Lightning) to eliminate engine torque effects. For example, the Sea Mosquito was a very hairy beast on a flight deck,but the Sea Hornet was described as "a real flying fish". By an odd coincidence, the Sea Hornet was first landed on HMS Ocean in the Firth of Clyde on the day Japan surrendered. Hard-pressed and short of fuel, the Japanese air force would have had an interesting time against long-range Hornets had Operation Tiger gone ahead in 1946.

WXMemoirSummerleeJB21a.JPG



Mind you, Mossie and Hornet were designed for different tasks: one a bomber, the other a fighter.....
 
Yeah, Hornets & Tempest II's were ready ta go when them nips called it quits...
...and w/ both 'a theze guys fer CFS3 on drawing boards, looks like someday we may be ready
fer some 'what-if' scenarios!(?):friday:
 
popsaka said:
Yeah, Hornets & Tempest II's were ready ta go when them nips called it quits...
...and w/ both 'a theze guys fer CFS3 on drawing boards, looks like someday we may be ready
fer some 'what-if' scenarios!(?):friday:
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I hope yer right.
 
What you see is what I've got. She does fly under her own steam now - the FM is at first working draft stage - and I have only the very bare beginnings of the VC, but I can look out of my own cockpit. :typing: After much headbanging she is no longer The Aeroplane With a Space Underneath (wheels didn't quite touch the ground) and I have discovered many variations on the Moling Problem.

Lots of things I've read the past years about modelling now make sense - few of them are the SDKs. :banghead: I've even learned one or two wrinkles about gMax that are not well documented - but the same could be said about most of gMax, lol.
 
hairyspin said:
What you see is what I've got. She does fly under her own steam now - the FM is at first working draft stage - and I have only the very bare beginnings of the VC, but I can look out of my own cockpit. :typing: After much headbanging she is no longer The Aeroplane With a Space Underneath (wheels didn't quite touch the ground) and I have discovered many variations on the Moling Problem.

Lots of things I've read the past years about modelling now make sense - few of them are the SDKs. :banghead: I've even learned one or two wrinkles about gMax that are not well documented - but the same could be said about most of gMax, lol.
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Cool...
I'd be 100% happy with the stock Tempest VC:jump:

I'm not picky about cockpits at all...I actually prefer the stock ones honestly...i'm pretty strange that way.
 
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