Texas Cop Tasers 72-year-old Great Grandmother

[PRB]

Agreed. Lesson for Granny and all the others out there who “know” the cops are “just always out to hassle them”: The Next time you’re pulled over for speeding, just sign the darn ticket, geez! Why do people who get pulled over for speeding think they get to “square off” and raise hell? Do they think the cop will be persuaded that they were, after all, in error, and say “sorry miss, after thinking about it, your running your mouth at me has convinced me that I was wrong, and the radar gun must have been broke when it said you were doing 90 MPH. Have a nice day, now.” It’s a tough lesson to learn for some people, I guess, but run your mouth at the cop who pulled you over, and you are absolutely positively guaranteed to loose, every single time. Maybe you’ll get lucky and get a cop who is “experienced” at “de-escalating” such situations, and maybe you’ll get a rookie. Tough luck for our poor persecuted person who is always getting picked on by cops, if they get a rookie. I didn’t watch the whole video, but I’ll bet that at some point she forfeited her chance to just “sign the ticket.” Probably after running her mouth for some extended period of time.

 

[Naismith]

Never having had a ticket, what happens if you don't sign?

 

[Toastmaker]

Never having had a ticket, what happens if you don't sign?

According to some around here, they'll beat you senseless and make you buy them doughnuts. Better be careful out there !

 

[Snuffy]

Never having had a ticket, what happens if you don't sign?

Obvioulsy you get tasered.

 

[Silver Fox]

The suspect didn't get tasered for not signing... continuing to be assaultive after open hand techniques were applied.... That will get you tasered. Of course, aerosols (pepper spray) or a baton are options as well... It depends on what assets are available to the officer.

 

[Roger]

In English Law, "reasonable force" is the ambiguous rule that applies to all individual's defence strategy. Ambiguous because reasonable force for a member of the SAS and reasonable force for a pensioner if they were mugged on the street is clearly different and yet often cited by the defence lawyers and often the source of great controversy reported in the tabloids.
There have been many cases in the UK recently where armed police units have been accused of having used excessive force, the most famous being the case of Jean Charles de Menezes.

As a police officer one is at the peak of fitness, alertness and training to deal with difficult and potentially dangerous situations (one would not join the service if that were not the case) and so "reasonable force" should not in this case involve the use of dangerous and potentially lethal equipment against an elderly, if somewhat fractious lady. The officer involved should find alternative employment where close call judgements regarding the safety of those around him would not occur.

 

[Silver Fox]

Interesting point Roger, we must consider the training and experiences common to the force this officer serves on. A lone officer making traffic stops is not all that common in Toronto anymore... in Texas, probably only happens during the day.

If this had occured in London I would be distressed, in Toronto concerned... if it was NYPD or LAPD? My biggest concern would be the fact that she is a great-grandmother, someone that stupid had viable offspring.

 

[Roger]

Interesting point Roger, we must consider the training and experiences common to the force this officer serves on. A lone officer making traffic stops is not all that common in Toronto anymore... in Texas, probably only happens during the day.

If this had occured in London I would be distressed, in Toronto concerned... if it was NYPD or LAPD? My biggest concern would be the fact that she is a great-grandmother, someone that stupid had viable offspring.

Ha ha,
I see the point that she was clearly not having a good day. At 57 I'm definately in the GOM group and by 72 (God willing I live that long) I will be the King of grumpies. I just hope I don't have the misfortune to meet a police officer so inexpert and poorly trained if I'm having a particularly bad (lack of ) hair day in 2024.

 

[johnh_049]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naismith
Never having had a ticket, what happens if you don't sign?

Obvioulsy you get tasered.

actually, refusing to sign the ticket is an arrestable offence.
signing the ticket is just agreeing to appear in court to face the charges.
don't sign, you go to jail. that's when "granny" decided to become combative, and faced the consequences.
guess he could have just gone upside her head with his baton and then slapped the cuffs on her.

 

[PRB]

Never having had a ticket, what happens if you don't sign?

What if you don’t sign it? LOL. You get to experience the consequences of your decision, that's what... I want my cake and eat it too! Ok, you actually do have the option of not signing it. But the consequences of that decision may be that the cop has to take you into custody. Or did you think that the consequence of not signing it was that you get to just drive away with no consequences? Once the cop decides that he has to take you into custody, because you refused to sign the ticket, you have more options. You can climb into the back of the police car quietly, or you can attempt to escape. Both those options have other consequences for you, see?
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
It’s like this:
<o></o>
Cop: “Sir, you were speeding, and I’m giving you a ticket, you have to sign it.”
<o></o>
Joe: “I won’t sign it, because I don’t think I was speeding, or I was speeding and I think I ought to be able to drive as fast as I want to without being hassled by you, either way, I’m not signing the ticket.”
<o></o>
Cop: “Sir, you have to sign it.”
<o></o>
Joe: “I won’t”
<o></o>
Cop: “Well, you can sign it here and be on your way, or we can go to the police headquarters and you can sign it there, but you do have to sign it.”
<o></o>
Joe: “Screw you.”
<o></o>
Cop: “Well, now we’ll have to go to the police station.”
<o></o>
Joe: “Why? Can’t you just back down, be afraid of me, and let me go?”
<o></o>
Cop: “Well, no, actually I can’t. You either have to sign the ticket here, or we can go to the police station to talk about it.”
<o></o>
Joe: “I don’t believe it. Screw you.”
<o></o>
Cop: “Ok, lets go”
<o></o>
Joe: “Ahh! I’m being persecuted!!” [runs around the car acting like a lunatic]
<o></o>
Cop: “Sir, honestly, you do have to come with me now.”
<o></o>
Joe: “Screw you!”
<o></o>
Cop: “Bzzzzz…..”
<o></o>
Joe: “Ouchie that hurts!”
<o></o>
Cop: “Well, you had your chance, didn’t you?”
<o></o>
Joe: “Yeah, but I though if I threw a hissy fit in front of your dash cam that you’d get afraid and just let me go, or I’d get this video played over and over again on Fox News”

 

[n4gix]

The concensus on one of the "police forums" seems to be that for most of them, if someone refuses to sign they write "refused to sign" on the ticket, hands them their copy and says "see you in court..."

 

[Silver Fox]

It depends on jurisdiction... I do parking enforcement, two jurisdictions here (side by side) handle drive-aways differently. Toronto driving away gets the ticket mailed to you, and pretty much guarantees your conviction. In Mississauga, if the ticket isn't served... It doesn't exist.

Hard to say without knowing how it is handled there...

 

[Toastmaker]

It's handled there (Texas) the same as California, which I'm intimately familiar with (23 yrs. LAPD) .

Refusal to sign the citation requires the officer, representing the state, to bring the suspect before a magistrate (which means getting locked up until bond is posted, insuring your presence in court). The officer has little choice in the matter and as previously stated - there is no "un-arrest" at the scene (assuming procedures are followed).

The real problem begins when this lady, after being informed she was under arrest, refused to comply and headed to her car stating, "I'm leaving".

Now let's assume the officer decided to use limited physical restraint methods to restrain and control her, instead of a taser. She was clearly prone to go physically ballistic, requiring even more force from the officer and greatly increasing the chances of bruising, fractures, dislocations, etc. on this older woman. There wasn't going to be any "talking her into compliance" - she demonstrated that quite clearly also.

A lot of people here seem to know little about electricity, since they think 50,000 volts sounds horrendous. It's not because the amperage is quite low and the potential for lasting damage is also quite low.

It's always easy to pick apart an officer's tactics after the fact. Try putting yourself in his shoes for a moment and make your decisions in a matter of a few seconds, based on what he saw as a situation rapidly deteriorating. I assure you that he mentally ran through his options like lightning and picked the one calculated to do the least damage to this woman (who by the way, looked pretty spry and agile to me, regardless of age).