The Big Bang

I

Ivan

Charter Member
74 years ago today, the second atomic bomb ever used in warfare was dropped on Nagasaki.
The first atomic bomb had fallen on Hiroshima on 06, August, 1945.
Nagasaki wasn't even the intended target for the second bomb.
Kokura was the target but was obscured by clouds and the secondary target, Nagasaki, was hit instead.

In a bit of irony, the ship that carried the main components for the atomic bombs, the USS Indianapolis did not make it home either. She was torpedoed and sunk by a Japanese submarine after dropping off the parts for the bombs.

Those two bombs were the only two nuclear weapons used in warfare.
Hopefully those will be the only ones ever to be used against humans.

Take a moment to think about all the effects of those two bombs even today.

- Ivan.
 
75 Years Ago Today

The first Atomic Bomb ever used in warfare was dropped over Hiroshima, Japan on 06, August 1945.
The single bomb dropped on Hiroshima did not cause any more immediate casualties than a typical firebombing raid over other cities in Japan, but the moral consequences of using atomic weapons in warfare are being considered even today.

- Ivan.
 
I am proud to have an autographed photo and book signed by General Paul Tibbets. A true American hero who was persecuted mercilessly for simply doing his duty on that day. He brought an end to the war in the Pacific against an evil empire, saving countless lives. And NO people, he didn't commit suicide! He died in November 2007 at age 92!
 

Attachments

  • 330px-Paul_W._Tibbets.JPG
    330px-Paul_W._Tibbets.JPG
    35.7 KB · Views: 0
Hello Oldmsgt,

It seems like today, many people are judging the actions of the players of the time with the values and morals of today which is not fair. I have read at least two articles that were more or less apologies for having brought the war to a conclusion in such a devastating manner. War in the Pacific was not a gentleman's war.
These articles also mistake cause and effect in describing the effect of the Soviet Union entering the war at the last minute and how if the US had simply waited, the Japanese would have surrendered. They also seem to ignore the Potsdam declaration and requirement for unconditional surrender. Most likely the Soviet entry was a result of their wish not to miss out on a land grab when they saw the show was about to end quickly.

We see atomic weapons with a stigma today that didn't exist at the time. Think of how many people were working on tactical nuclear weapons such as nuclear artillery shells, air-to-air and surface-to-surface missiles. It was just another weapons technology until both sides had enough to annihilate each other.
People were not necessarily afraid of radiation at the time because they really didn't understand it.
What we know today is quite different.

Regarding the "Evil Empire", I am not entirely convinced that is a fair description. The Japanese of the time had their own moral and ethical standards and lived by them. It is much like people of one religious background judging another religion. Our standards are simply different. I was actually reminded of this today when I mentioned the anniversary of the Hiroshima bombing.
The lady I spoke to had quite a different outlook on US international affairs and summed it up as America is always meddling in other people's affairs. I was a bit surprised but listened to her for a while.

- Ivan.
 
One thing is for certain...had it been the Soviets that dropped the first nuclear weapon, the same people who are attempting to apply "retroactive morality", and who display "outrage" every year at the US use of the weapon, would instead be gushing about what a brilliant tactician/statesman Stalin was, and how the first use of nuclear weapons was the best thing since borscht.

I would respond respectfully to the gentleman who posted above, that "stigma" might not be an accurate term, as the definition of the word appears to be laced with judgmental overtones: "mark of shame or discredit". Most historians agree that our use of nuclear weapons in WW II was a wartime imperative whose alternative was a US invasion of the Japanese homeland in 1946 that would have cost as many as 1 million US and Japanese lives. In addition, it is hard to dispute the fact that deterrence worked from 1945 to 1991 to avoid a direct confrontation between the US and the Soviet Union.

I was fortunate enough to interview LeMay in high school several times before being commissioned and "SACumsized" into the SAC Alert Force myself...General LeMay made a very simple but powerful point: "War is a terrible, mean business where combatants and the innocent alike die. And there are no trophies for second place."

It doesn't make the loss of life any less tragic-- on either side....and we should use these anniversaries to reaffirm our commitment to do all in our power to avoid the use of nuclear weapons as we have for the past 75 years. I believe that the best way to accomplish that objective remains in maintaining a disciplined, highly trained force that can respond effectively both on a day to day and a generated alert basis to place and keep as many potential enemy targets at risk as possible. Deterrence remains a powerful force.

Kent

Question: "Who Killed SAC?"
Answer "The Butler did it..."
 
Last edited:
ColoKent said:
I would respond respectfully to the gentleman who posted above, that "stigma" might not be an accurate term, as the definition of the word appears to be laced with judgmental overtones: "mark of shame or discredit". Most historians agree that our use of nuclear weapons in WW II was a wartime imperative whose alternative was a US invasion of the Japanese homeland in 1946 that would have cost as many as 1 million US and Japanese lives. In addition, it is hard to dispute the fact that deterrence worked from 1945 to 1991 to avoid a direct confrontation between the US and the Soviet Union.
Click to expand...

Hello ColoKent,

I believe "stigma" was the correct word to use. It isn't my opinion, but it does seem to be a pretty common theme in the several articles I have read over the last two days or so. I thought it was bad last year. It seems to be getting worse as time goes on.

That was the point I was trying to make. Atomic weapons were seen as just another tool at the time.
Imagine if an enemy bomber had been brought down with a nuclear tipped Genie missile. Back then, we would not have thought it any different than any other intercept. These days we would look at things very differently.
I remember C.B. Colby books describing US Army weapons. A nuclear shell for the Long Tom artillery was just another weapon in the arsenal.

- Ivan.
 
Ivan,

Wow...C.B. Colby...now there’s a name I hadn’t heard in a loooong time— we must be close in age...or you like looking at really OLD books! You know....I think I even remember the book you are thinking about....it was rather glib about killing machines.

You are probably correct that “stigma” is the word probably in “vogue” today with the “outraged” masses— most of whom are disinterested in anything (including history) that would force them to think outside the paradigm with which they have been heavily programmed. Using that term simply highlights their own bias (which is certainly their right), and their inability to understand and learn from history (which is the frightening part to me). I’m sure you’ve heard the old cliche: “Those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it”.

Man...now I got go find some C.B. Colby books...The ones I remember most are “SAC” and “NORAD”...In particular, I remember one page in “SAC” with a picture of a B-58 crew scrambling to their plane, as a typical C.B. caption screamed: “IT COULD BE REAL!”. Miss those days...

Best,

Kent
 
BTW...did you guys realize that Paul Tibbets’ grandson (Brig Gen Paul W. Tibbets IV) commanded the 509th BW (same unit his grandfather commanded)? Unfortunately, the younger Tibbets career didn’t have too good of an ending.

Kent
 
ColoKent said:
Wow...C.B. Colby...now there’s a name I hadn’t heard in a loooong time— we must be close in age...or you like looking at really OLD books! You know....I think I even remember the book you are thinking about....it was rather glib about killing machines.
Click to expand...

Hello ColoKent,

We are actually pretty close in age. I used to check out those books from my Elementary School Library because the other books were pretty boring. From what I remember they were mostly about 30 pages and hard cover.
This one was probably "Arms of Our Fighting Men" or something like that.

The other author I remember from back then was David C. Cooke and his airplane books.

Another thing that people today tend to forget is that radiation exposure at the time wasn't considered necessarily a bad thing.
We know better today, but consider that Uranium miners were often amusing themselves by setting off Geiger Counters by BLOWING ON THEM!!! Ouch! The US Government exposed quite a few servicemen at the Bikini nuclear tests and is still paying their survivors.
Also remember that the "benefits" of radioactivity is what gave us Spiderman and the Incredible Hulk.... That is what the uneducated were thinking at the time. In that environment, what is so bad about dropping a couple atom bombs on the Japs except that we might have a bunch of really tough and muscular green skinned soldiers to oppose the invasion of Japan?

- Ivan.
 
I forgot about David C. "Cookie"! I remember his books.

Did you ever read a book (guessing it's circa 1967 or 68) called "Airports USA" by Lou Jacobs, Jr.? That's one that sticks in my head...

Kent
 
Hello ColoKent,

I am pretty sure I never saw that book. The only source of books I had was the school library and the local public library which was pretty small. My interest in aeroplanes at the time was pretty narrow: Basically just combat aircraft and perhaps racing planes. I had no understanding of all the required support services and facilities. Any book that didn't have enough pictures was not going to get much attention.

This was also not a subject that my parents or teachers encouraged. They thought it was a distraction from my school work which it probably was. Subjects taught in school were boring....

- Ivan.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top