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The Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome

napacon

Members +
Every weekend one can go see and Hear,watch fly..the "The Spirit of St. Louis " and its Beautiful..Flys Beautifully,...Then I Go to my FSX..Drag my Model out of the hanger..Go to OLD RHINEBECK to fly,...Off load lots of fuel..Line Up ,Throttle up Feet Dancing and Suddenly I,M FLYING A RATTLESNAKE..We know its Hands on machine.No Trim and enjoy the ride here ..But the FSX Model seems to be a TORTURE DEVISE .,I Of Course Never flew This plane,BUT I see others do it Certainly It Crossed an Ocean ..And it Looks Normal...SOO Why ,or How can one make this plane civilized for FSX!!????thnx All


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrdkR1YXbJg



 
I never last more than a couple of minutes in it before plummeting to the ground, that is if (big if) I can actually get it in the air at all. Huge pull to the left every time. Don't know whether that is a rudder or torque thing but so frustrating. I just give up. I don't think it can be a very realistic model. Someone is bound to tell me otherwise :encouragement:
 
The guy that runs Ole Rhinebeck was on Fox News this morning talking about flying the old aircraft including the Spirit clone which is suppose to be an exact replica. He said people are spoiled by modern aircraft which you can trim and sit back and watch. The old aircraft require constant input but are easy enough to fly and are not dangerous. He said The Spirit flies really well.
 
The guy that runs Ole Rhinebeck was on Fox News this morning talking about flying the old aircraft including the Spirit clone which is suppose to be an exact replica. He said people are spoiled by modern aircraft which you can trim and sit back and watch. The old aircraft require constant input but are easy enough to fly and are not dangerous. He said The Spirit flies really well.

have you checked the fuel and payload status?..I wouldn't fly it with more than a balanced 25% fuel load.
 
Yes Heywooood..its just out of Trim this model its from FS9 and ported over..I Do not believe a Native FSX model exists..Using now the "Microsft Spirit_of_ STLouis FSX..Too Bad ,one Of the Great Historical Planes Ever, Poorly Represented Could be better!Thnx!
 
I fly the FS9 model (converted to FSX) in FSX all the time, with full realism, and have a blast with it - of course I use TrackIR, which makes it a whole lot easier to manage your POV out of the cockpit. I usually only put 40-gallons in it for every flight I do, but it may handle better with more fuel than that (while the ORA "Spirit" reproduction is very close, I think they only have something like a 65-gallon fuel tank in it (compared to the original 450-gallon capacity), since there are of course no plans to fly it across the Atlantic, and even then, you'll get a good amount of flying time - for this reason too, they had to put some extra weight in the nose to keep the center of gravity where it needs to be for best handling). From what I've always read, the "Spirit" must handle a lot like the other aircraft of that period, including the WWI types, with all of that wing area and very little rudder or vertical tail fin to speak of. Ken Cassens, who flies the ORA "Spirit", has a lifetime of experience flying those early teens and twenties era machines, so his descriptions on how it flies are based on his experiences with other types from that era and before - it might very well fly quite nicely compared to WWI-era fighters/trainers, but probably not so much compared to modern aircraft.

I've noticed, flying the sim version a lot, it is quite easy actually for take off and landing, as long you are able to set yourself up to see/realize what it is you're doing with every control input - the aircraft never does anything unexpected just by itself - when loaded for a normal flight, it gets up and goes quite well too, and if you land at the proper speeds, allowing you to three-point it, that tail skid brings you to a stop quite quickly, which is also very nice. The hardest part is just getting accustom to the feel in the 'air', which can be a challenge, detached from the sim as we are, and not actually 'feeling' what the aircraft is doing, but simply relying on the visual experience out the side windows and the turn/slip indicator on the panel. With such little vertical fin/rudder compared to wing area, the aircraft does like to skid around quite a bit, but you see that a lot with other types as well from that era and before, such as the WWI fighters, with all of their wing area and little tails. The aircraft does have elevator trim, which is quite effective (when the ORA "Spirit" first flew last year, too much weight had been put up front in the nose (based on their ground-calculations, it was the right amount in theory, but not in practice), and Ken Cassens had to quickly put full elevator-up trim on during the takeoff run - though the aircraft probably flew better with more weight up front).

An absolute fanatical clone of the "Spirit" (even more so than the ORA example), is nearing completion in Washington state, by JNE Aviation, and the plan is to tour the country with it next year, making all of the stops in the lower-48 that Lindbergh did originally, following the Atlantic crossing (2017 of course being the 90th Anniversary of the original flight). There is also another "Spirit" replica that is being built, called the "Spirit of St. Louis 2", which is planned to be flown across the Atlantic next year, retracing the same route, but this replica is being fitted with a Jacobs 755R2 radial, instead of the Wright J-5, modern instruments/avionics, and a larger fuel load than the original.
 
The Plane Has to Be Slipped For landings..For both Aerodynamics and Visual approaches..No Flaps And Cannot Land Blind..The Periscope useless here...Unless ya Got a TURTLE NECK. SLIP IT!!..LOL.....My thinking is...We need a New model..Since OLD RHINEBECK making it Fly Again! Interest is Growing.making it popular to new generations ..Thnx!
 
Yep, just like you can watch Ken Cassens do with the ORA reproduction (and in moving footage of Charles Lindbergh landing the original), I always slip the simulated "Spirit" in for landing too, which it does very well/easily. I never use the periscope (I think Charles Lindbergh hardly ever did either - but of course the 'image' you see when using the periscope in the sim, isn't actually being projected, you're simply looking through a square hole right in the virtual panel, and so that 'image' you see will change/differ as you move your POV around the cockpit too, and usually hardly helpful) - I figure I get quite a better view out the left window with the periscope retracted anyway.

I wonder, if MS did indeed get the flight dynamics very close to the real thing with the FS9 Spirit, and all of its purposefully replicated yaw instability is accurate, it would then only speak to FS9/FSX depictions of other early teens/twenties types, such as those WWI fighters that were produced to be unstable, as not behaving quite as closely/as 'challenging' to fly as the originals. If you watch a lot of videos of WWI and other early types flying, with all of their wing area and tiny little vertical fins/rudders (just like the "Spirit"), they skid all around the sky too when doing anything but flying straight and level, but most of these types I have in FSX are very stable/hands-off when they don't appear to be in real life. The MS 'Spirit' flight dynamics, whether accurate or not, requires a good amount of stick-&-rudder attention to remain coordinated through maneuvers, which I like to believe is close to how the real thing handles, based on all of the accounts I've read/heard on it and various other types from that early era.
 
Thank you for the link Napacon! As just one example of the commitment that Ken Cassens has had to making this reproduction as accurate to the original as feasibly possible, following the test flights last fall, Ken rebuilt the structure of the rudder over the winter months so as to have a closer/now perfect matching contour as the original, and also re-did the wheels/tires, so as to have the fabric covering laced-up like the original.
 
Thank you Bomber-12th..Yes From The bone Yard Have been Following..OLD RHINEBECK on of my old haunts then...I Plan to Come Up to see,Hear ,And watch this Legend FLY..I Get Misty Eyed just looking at the progress..What WONDERFUL MEN AND WOMEN who do this labor with pure love in their hearts..I also thank The ORA SCENERY great Gift from Falcon409....HAVE FUN VIN

 
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