The "right" joystick

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Olham54

The Bordeaux-Red Baron
Question to all those of you, who have experienced cheap AND expensive joysticks.
I'm flying OFF and IL2, with a THRUSTMASTER T.FLIGHT V.2 (well, that's what it says on the little labe underneath; plus: made in China (lol).
But the better I get flying my planes, the worse feels my shooting - I can't keep the enemy centered in the line of fire; plane is wagging and shifting !
I understand, that there is a certain problem, having the rudder integrated in the stick. But is it possibly so, that a stick at this level is also more inaccurate, than for example a HOTAS Cougar, or the big SAITEK one ?
In a big shoppimg center, I have once experienced to touch and move the "Cougar", and it felt much tighter and somehow more solid and stable; but they didn't have a game connected; so I don't know if these expensive ones are really worth it.
I'd be glad, if pilots with comparing experience would give off statements here - no commercials, just some "before and after" comparison.
Thanks; Olham
 
If you are using a "twist stick" now, have you considered rudder pedals? I've got a Saitek Cyborg Evo twist stick that I used for a while. It was OK but when I would use the rudder function it was nearly impossible to control the pitch and roll accurately. Got a CH Combatstick and CH rudder pedals and it improved my accuracy by at least 15-20%. I downed 4 SE5s the other day in a DrI and came home with 64 rounds. If you don't have a set of pedals, look into that. You can use the same joystick, just disable the rudder function.

CJ
 
Servus Olham,

there are many different products available. Everyone of us has his own favorite joystick and so you will hear a lot of different opinions - and none of them will be 100% right or wrong... It all depends, like always, on how much money you want to spend.

1st of all - I do fly simulators since more than 20years and inbetween i had the chance of making my real private pilot license, so i do know what comes next to a real feeling.

As a matter of fact, when flying WWI-aircrafts you MUST HAVE rudder-pedals for my opinion, since they are so much needed while turning and aiming. I think it´s really hard to use a rudder integrated in a joystick - just because of managing 3 axis with one hand!! So i prefer extra rudder pedals like in real planes which gives me much more comfort while trying to be precise in steering.

Now which one should u take? Like I sad, there are a lot of options - i go with the more expensive ones and use the CH-Products "Fighterstick", "Pro Throttle" and "Pro Pedals" - here is a link: http://www.chproducts.com/retail/index.html

I know that they are really expensive - but believe me, after using a lot of sticks in my life i stick to CH since more than 10 years. Never hat a problem with them, highest quality and absolut presicion. Only had to switsch to USB a few years ago - since then i can program more than 250 functions in only one (!) profile, nice easy going software and a really realistic feeling while chasing through the air.

I know that the Saitek X52 is really popular, but comparing to a lot of friends that are using the X52 i am much more satisfied with my choice...

But at the end it´s your choice and further more your money - but if you have the amount left to buy it, you want regret - i promise you!

Beste Gruesse,

MadMonty
 
The Story Behind the Force Feedback Joystick
Now some people will disagree with this way of thinking, different opinions make the world go around. I don't see how in the name of all that's holy, you can fly an F18 Hornet, and a SE5 with the same Joystick. The Hornet can't vibrate at 585 MPH, it would self destruct. While the SE5 firing it's weapon, shakes like a washing machine on steroids. The only way to simutate it is with a Force Feedback Joystick. You'll feel the instant you're flying, instead of everything getting smaller. And most importantly you'll feel the stall coming, 1/2 second before it arrives, giving the pilot ample time to alter his activities, thus avoiding the stall. It could be a lifesaver.

Especially with WWI Birds, many times after take-off, you can attempt to gain altitude too quickly and stall. It's very easy, to change, just level out and build some speed, when you feel the 'Death Rattle'. Without Force Feedback, just stall and die.

In a Dogfight you might make one turn too many. You can maintain the attack and stall, and the Hunter becomes the Hunted. Or you can break off the attack, rebuild speed, and attack again. Without Force Feedback you don't have a choice.

The stall itself is just the lack of Flying, below a certain speed, it just stalls. The only way to recover with these low power engines, is to dive inorder to gain speed of air, over your wings and control surfaces. Not enough altitude . . you die.

The market is a bit limited in the Force Feedback Dept

New: The Saitek Cyclone EVO FFB
http://www.amazon.com/Saitek-Cyborg-...913137&sr=1-18
Which I like, very comfortable, just looks strange
OR
The Logitech Force 3D
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Force...913531&sr=1-28

If for some reason, the FFB is Not to your liking in OFF, you can switch it off in Workshop :ernae:
 
Olham S!

I've tried most of em and i'm still using the Cougar. But it does wear. The saitek 40 was Ok but the latest is X52 as you know.
I have tried the FFB but I love the Cougar- it being a HOTAS.
If I were starting out ,like you are, I would go for the CH or the X52 with pedals. can't beat rudder pedals for WW1 especially.
But I love my Cougar like i said, to the extent that it looks like my new computer will have to have XP rather than vista, 'cos the latter doesn't have drivers to run the Cougar with the brilliant Foxy software. I have never seen software like that Foxy by James Hallows. It will make a joystick do everything except brew a pot of tea!

Whatever you decide- best of luck.
 
Right now Im using a Saitek Aviator. Its a decent stick and I like alot of the features it has. It doesnt have rudder pedals,(which im sure is like TrackIR, once you have them youll never go back) but the twist rudder is fairly smooth in flight. Its not FFB either so you will experience some of the things Gimpy mentioned like not being able to feel a stall coming on. But the features are the best thing for me. It has 4 different toggle switches, that make for 8 different button assignments. My first toggle switch is set to "up" for magnetos on/start engine and "down" for mags off. My second comes in handy for flying 2 seaters. up for pilot, down for gunner. Another great feature is the twin locking throttle. you can have one for left engine one for right engine or lock the sticks together for both. I have mine set to left stick throttle, right stick for mixture. And for the cheap price, to me its worth a little more than the tag says.

http://www.itreviews.co.uk/hardware/h1155.htm

Prost
-Rooster
 
Thanks so far, boys. Thought of getting rudder peds, but must first save the noney for them - 120,- Euro, shhh!
Gimpy: my neighbour will borrow me a Force Feedback, so I'll give it a try. But as soon as I can test a HOTAS, I will (must know, if it's really so good!)

To GIMPY again: good grief, Gimpy, what planes are you flying, when you die so easily - should try a solid German one for a change (lol) (try the Pfalz - hardly ever stalls); I only stalled once, and that was in a far too tight turn in my Albatros, chasing a Camel, with no space under me. Cheers :ernae: Olham
 
Olham54 said:
Gimpy: my neighbour will borrow me a Force Feedback, so I'll give it a try. good!) :ernae: Olham
Click to expand...
You'll find you'll notice the instant your wheels start turning, on take-off or landing. And when I feel especially bloodthirsty, I disable the Force in Workshop, in which case my bullet hits almost Double.

I normally fly a mission in campaign, and pat myself on the back, when I score more than a single victory.

The times I disable the FFB, 3 Kills are expected with spare ammo upon landing

Again I'll say: How anyone can fly a F-18 and an SE5, with the same joystick, I can't comprehend :ernae:
 
Pretty simple really. There are only so many control surfaces on either type of aircraft. Basically it comes down to ailerons, elevator and rudder. All the joystick does is make 'em move. What's complicated about that??
 
OK wrong word, Mr Literal. let me substatute operate for fly :costumes:
 
gimpyguy said:
The Story Behind the Force Feedback Joystick
Now some people will disagree with this way of thinking, different opinions make the world go around. I don't see how in the name of all that's holy, you can fly an F18 Hornet, and a SE5 with the same Joystick. The Hornet can't vibrate at 585 MPH, it would self destruct. While the SE5 firing it's weapon, shakes like a washing machine on steroids. The only way to simutate it is with a Force Feedback Joystick. You'll feel the instant you're flying, instead of everything getting smaller. And most importantly you'll feel the stall coming, 1/2 second before it arrives, giving the pilot ample time to alter his activities, thus avoiding the stall. It could be a lifesaver.

Especially with WWI Birds, many times after take-off, you can attempt to gain altitude too quickly and stall. It's very easy, to change, just level out and build some speed, when you feel the 'Death Rattle'. Without Force Feedback, just stall and die.

In a Dogfight you might make one turn too many. You can maintain the attack and stall, and the Hunter becomes the Hunted. Or you can break off the attack, rebuild speed, and attack again. Without Force Feedback you don't have a choice.

The stall itself is just the lack of Flying, below a certain speed, it just stalls. The only way to recover with these low power engines, is to dive inorder to gain speed of air, over your wings and control surfaces. Not enough altitude . . you die.

The market is a bit limited in the Force Feedback Dept

New: The Saitek Cyclone EVO FFB
http://www.amazon.com/Saitek-Cyborg-...913137&sr=1-18
Which I like, very comfortable, just looks strange
OR
The Logitech Force 3D
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Force...913531&sr=1-28

If for some reason, the FFB is Not to your liking in OFF, you can switch it off in Workshop :ernae:
Click to expand...
I have to agree with you regarding FFB joysticks. I am still using a MS Sidewinder 2 and and I love it. The twisting stick for rudder usage is obviously inaccurate but at the time of release it was much better than using the keyboard. Having flown a Grumman Stearman, I can tell that the stick shakes, vibrates and you would be hard pressed to tear the wings off! Much unlike WWI aircraft but similar, at least the GS is a biplane.
The WWII fighters were much the same. Just idiling on the runway the stick in a P-51 vibrates like hell as does the P-47. So IMOP, FFB is totally necessary. Without it you miss the recoil, which as pointed out previously, takes a great deal away from accuracy and realisim.
I will soon have to replace my Sidewinder, which saddens me, but it has given me years of happiness. Just my 2 cents.
 
Yeah, you might be right there, GIMPY; that rattely-shakily wood-and-canvas-plane feel, with a stiff landing gear, can best be realised by a Force Feedback.
And for the pedals - if you can't use them, isn't there a possibility for a second joystick being used for rudder (think I read that somewere) ?
Cheer; Olham
 
Hello,
i still use a 4-year old Saitek FFB, used almost daily. My older Logitech FFB went down smoking with my B17 (mighty Eigth sim) somewhere over the channel - great immersion, smelling your engines burn - but then only once :icon_lol:
Twist and firing do not work well together, for this reason i usually use the joystick for flying the plane, and the space bar for firing. Much better rudder control that way. Maybe i will buy rudder pedals some time, but i will sure get TrackIR before those pedals ..
Greetings,
Catfish
 
Olham54 said:
And for the pedals - if you can't use them, isn't there a possibility for a second joystick being used for rudder (think I read that somewere) ?
Cheer; Olham
Click to expand...

Veeery Innnteeeresting, I'll try it
 
Forget the other joystick idea.
However the Spacebar Machine Gun does have merit, when you remove trigger manipulation from the picture, you seem to have a better control of your aircraft. The FFB pulse is still felt in the joystick

Now for use in the game, other than the shakedown cruise :medals::medals:
 
Joystick

For what its worth, I have always liked the saitek x45 (cant afford the newer ones, but Im sure its all just more bells and whistles)

Joystick and trigger on right, throttle and rudder on left, with just about all the bottons, viewhats, rottories you could use.

As a matter of fact, I am watching a couple auctions for a "backup" one, cause I know its just a matter of time before I break something on mine, and don't know what I would do if i couldnt play.

duck
 
I too have the X45 and also have a backup. I use the Saitek pro pedals and have been very satisfied with them. the seperate throttle, stick and pedals helps the immersion. FFB would be a plus but I like the setup I have as is.

Cheers,

John
 
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