To those who love the modern jets......

C

Cowboy1968

Charter Member
.......i really did give them a try over the holiday weekend. I even made a a whole new install for them, complete with environmental enhancements.

Well, they just didn't do it for me. all Those Airbus and Boeing planes look a like in the end. For me, they aren't as challenging to fly as the old Propliners are and they just don't have the class of the Boeing 707, Douglas DC-8 and the De Haviland DH.106 Comet. Those first generation of jets were in a class by themselves. After pushing the 707 and DC-8 early models around the skies, the later second generation of jets (Lockheed L1011, Douglas DC-9, Boeing 727, Boeing 747 and so on) just don't offer the challenge of the early jets. Where it took around 10,000 ft to take an early model DC-8, early Boeing 707 and the early Convair jets off, it take only around 8,000 ft to take a 747-100 off.

The inefficiency of those early jets made them fun to fly. They took a lot of throttle to stay at speeds of 350 knots, while in a modern Airbus 340 or Boeing 787, you can barely keep the throttle cracked open to around 25 percent. Fuel burn is slower and that makes it a less of a factor.

Though I will admit, flying a 777 on the same route LAX to San Francisco the flight was less work load heavy and I landed with a better control in the plane, but it just doesn't match the feel you get in the 707.

Yes the propliners like the Constellation, Stratocruiser and the Seven Seas takes about twice as long to get there, they are a charm to fly....

guess i have confirmed it to myself I belong in the 50's and early 60's of aviation.
 
Couldn't have said it better myself. Those old planes have a ton of personality and are truly unique in their own special ways. In comparision, today's jetliners are like bland, uninteresting clones of each other.

I love old planes, old muscle cars, and old music. There are times where I wonder if I was born a few decades too late...
 
The only modern tubeliners I like are the very biggest of the bunch, like the 777 or the A380. Landing the smaller ones is pretty much like landing the Lear. They all follow the same basic formula of dropping the flaps and gear starting at about 180 and touching down at about 130-140. And everything up to about the 737 feels roughly the same too. But the really big ones aren't as nimble, so they take a little more work while on final. You have to stay a little further ahead to keep from getting out of sorts.
 
On the other hand don't forget that these are sims, with all manner of possible non-realistic attributes including performance. So before you write them all off check to see if they are flying realistically. Nothing damps my flying pleasure more than some heavy that can rotate in 10 seconds and twitches like a butterfly in a tempest on yoke inputs. Many of them need a little CFG TLC.
And after all, they are made to fly like docile cows.:icon_lol:
 
aeromed202 said:
On the other hand don't forget that these are sims, with all manner of possible non-realistic attributes including performance. So before you write them all off check to see if they are flying realistically. Nothing damps my flying pleasure more than some heavy that can rotate in 10 seconds and twitches like a butterfly in a tempest on yoke inputs. Many of them need a little CFG TLC.
And after all, they are made to fly like docile cows.:icon_lol:
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Really wasn't knocking the modern equipment.....just saying it wasn't for me. In real life i can appreciate an aircraft that has been designed to take care of its passengers. With the computer systems on board these things...and yes, I believe the sim.....does point it out, that the planes are easier to fly. To be honest as a real world passenger i have an appreciation for what i have learned in our sim, but as a sim pilot, I enjoy the fight the B707 gives you......you have to out think her.....

She and her sisters, of the first generation, have all the contagious characteristics of the prop liners mixed with the speed of a jet. you have to think way a head of this bird. I think every jet commercial pilot should have to spend time in B707, DC-8, or Convair 880\990. Once they mastered them, then you give them the ""keys" to the shiny new toy in the hanger.
 
I couldn't agree more. I, too, am residing in the early jetliner and early/late propliner world. My absolute favorite jets are the DC-9 and 727 series. I'm a huge fan of the Historic Jetliners Group.

Bob
 
rpjkw said:
I couldn't agree more. I, too, am residing in the early jetliner and early/late propliner world. My absolute favorite jets are the DC-9 and 727 series. I'm a huge fan of the Historic Jetliners Group.

Bob
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Some of the best freeware jets you can find.....

I do agree with you about the 727, but the DC-9 falls into the second generation of jets.
 
rpjkw said:
I couldn't agree more. I, too, am residing in the early jetliner and early/late propliner world. My absolute favorite jets are the DC-9 and 727 series. I'm a huge fan of the Historic Jetliners Group.

Bob
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Bob, they are nice, I have to agree, but I just can't get into a flight deck without the words "VC" attached to it. To be honest, I used to only fly the 2D Panel, until I found out the real joy of flying the VC. Spoilt I guess, but that's the way it is for me these days.

Mike
 
This classic jetliner is a beauty and a real joy to fly. Love the 707, 727, DC8 and C990 BUT this is the one I find I go back to the most. One of the few that I can make an exception to the "no VC, no fly" rule. These are two "VBJ" aka Vickers Business Jet conversions I have been modding. David Maltby's creation perhaps a bit overlooked or under-rated? The autoland feature really works and quite amazing (not to mention historically correct).
 
I don't fly modern tube-liners either, but i LOVE David Maltby's classic british liners:

http://www.dmflightsim.co.uk/

I've been flying the Trident and the BAC a lot lately on short 1 or 2 hours trips. They are a hand-full.! I'm literally busy managing everything from gate-to-gate....no rest at all...lol. Talk about full immersion...

-feng
 
Needless to say I love Connies....all of them. If I am not flying one of them I am probably thinking of flying one next :D
And in general I do get a lot more fun out of the piston/prop era than I do out of the jets in general. That is provided there is a good VC and lot's of "as real as it gets (or we can make it)" built into the model. Otherwise you're just flying a slower version of the modern day transport.

Part of what makes the propliners more fascinating over a long period is that there are a ton of things that you need to do right in order to start the engines, takeoff, fly and land that are just not there in any of the jets.

As my friend retired AA Captain Joe always puts it: "You can have the Stewardess start the engines on a jet while you make a quick dash to the John .... don't try that with a Radial"

Is just one of the many things. But of course that does also depend on how close to "real as it gets" are you making your flights.
Do you follow power reduction procedures or do you chop the power when you get close to the TOD and come screaming down the hill.

I am sure there are a few jets out there that have as many or even more things to do as a DC6-B, DC7-C or Connie and I know a few that are good enough to learn systems on the real airplane.....but I would not part with my money for any of them.

Stefan
 
I actually have the role books for noise abatment, power reduction, a list of frequencies in game for ADF flying, I try to follow VFR flying and so on. I don't do this GPS thingy......new fangled toys....bah!!!!!

I have a whole bider of checklists for the various types I fly

My wife says i make to much work of it...........its suppose to be a game.
 
PeteHam said:
I love the Boeing 727-100 and 737-200 :jump:

Pete.
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You talkin Dreamliners 727-100 ?? The sound is AMAZING, and tho the stock cockpit is nothing to rave about theres a couple of replacement pits that are as real as I can imagine the real ones were. I couldn't imagine a flight 'sim' without this A/C.
 
I actually like to mix old with new. Many cockpits of so-called "vintage" aircraft that I've had the pleasure of actually climbing into actually have some degree of modern avionics. I've seen everything from a few modern bits like an HSI in a Gooney to a Garmin GPS in a WWII bomber. Since most flight files are nearly impossible to trim out to hold a set altitude for more than a few minutes, I like to have the full set of VOR/ILS/GPS installed (via my own custom popup). Engine management is still a manual process though - I guess it's a good thing that I'm getting better at that!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteHam
I love the Boeing 727-100 and 737-200 :jump:

Pete.

You talkin Dreamliners 727-100 ??

I have the Flight1/Dreamfleet B727 as well as a selection of Vistaliners & HJG 727's.

The payware 727 is well worth getting.

I prefer the 727-100 series, just like the look.

As for the Boeing 737's, I have the Tinmouse 737-200 and the Vistaliners 737-200 one as well.

I'm not a fan of 'Glass cockpits' and much prefer the analog gauges.

Pete.
 
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