Unacceptable

U

Uriah

Guest
The visuals of the game are outstanding. The conversion from WW2 to WW1 is top notch. The atmosphere is engaging.

So thats the problem - old CFS3 lag behavior. Sometimes planes are not where they appear, sometimes the move in impossible side way behavior. I do mean impossible.

Tonight I was playing with Sittingduck (Big thanks duck) and we talked about this and he was seeing the same thing. There were three of us. Swampgas was the third. I did have fun but this behavior is unacceptable. I do have a very good machine and offline can fly with few stutter with all sliders at max.

Any solution in the future?
 
Uriah said:
The visuals of the game are outstanding. The conversion from WW2 to WW1 is top notch. The atmosphere is engaging.

So thats the problem - old CFS3 lag behavior. Sometimes planes are not where they appear, sometimes the move in impossible side way behavior. I do mean impossible.

Tonight I was playing with Sittingduck (Big thanks duck) and we talked about this and he was seeing the same thing. There were three of us. Swampgas was the third. I did have fun but this behavior is unacceptable. I do have a very good machine and offline can fly with few stutter with all sliders at max.

Any solution in the future?
Click to expand...

You are referring to CFS3 online play code?

OFF is primarily and always will be about flying Single Player in WW1. None of our features on our website refer to MP.

Having said all that there are quite few online squadrons that are happy with MP (P1 P2 and soon P3) maybe hook up with them to see what they do differently.

OFF MP connectivity is fixed in 1.2 BTW

WM
 
Uriah said:
The visuals of the game are outstanding. The conversion from WW2 to WW1 is top notch. The atmosphere is engaging.

So thats the problem - old CFS3 lag behavior. Sometimes planes are not where they appear, sometimes the move in impossible side way behavior. I do mean impossible.

Tonight I was playing with Sittingduck (Big thanks duck) and we talked about this and he was seeing the same thing. There were three of us. Swampgas was the third. I did have fun but this behavior is unacceptable. I do have a very good machine and offline can fly with few stutter with all sliders at max.

Any solution in the future?
Click to expand...

I've experienced the same sort of thing flying the IL2-series of games, aircraft warping around, appearing/disappering and all sorts of other nonsense.

If you want a more satisfactory result:

1) Make sure you have plenty of bandwidth, up and down.

2) Fly with folks that are geographically correct, in relatively close proximity to yourself, to help minimize your ping.

3) Adjust the number of players admitted to the flight once that you've got items 1 and 2 nailed down. When things start to get silly, dial back the number of participants and bar additional clients.

In the absence of (a) dedicated server(s), that's about all you can do given the amount of data that has to be exchanged. Even server-based hosting is far from perfect in these regards. OFF ought to fly awesome on a GB-LAN, although I've never tried it.

ivanmoe
 
ivanmoe said:
I've experienced the same sort of thing flying the IL2-series of games, aircraft warping around, appearing/disappering and all sorts of other nonsense.
Click to expand...

Ivan,
The group I fly Co-op with, hosted in central Canada with guys as far away as OZ and the UK with 16 on-board, usually runs very smooth.

Uriah,
Seems we had the same kind of troubles back when First Eagles came out.
I'm sure the guys will be getting OFF ready for MP in the near future.
Might as well hang in there till the patch arrives, rather than putting yourself through the aggravation.

Cheers
Fawlty
 
Hi Guys,

With MP in any of the CFS3 series (including OFF) all of the problems mentioned above will occur.

It all comes back to the latency between the various PC's. as stated above you can minimise the effect of it.

what the vast majority of CFS3 online groups do is to play co-op missions, this means you are dogfighting AI opponents and the planes in your squad are the ones being controlled by human players. you still see the odd radical flight characteristic happen, but becuase you are chasing ai planes which are rendered by your PC you seldom see them behaive in an odd manor.

having said all that though, you can have a reasonable amount of fun flying head to head. I was online over the weekend doing some aircraft testing and managed to have a pretty good time with me in Australia and my host in the USA. had a latency of 280ms and only in the very tightest turns was I having trouble hitting him.

there are several groups who regulary fly online, with P2 and who will soon be flying P3.

HTH's

regards Rob.
 
Just my 2 cent on this,

does anyone of you guys use a wireless connection to play online? Back in the days I was racing GTR and GTR². It causes major lags, when anyone used a wireless connection. During league racing it was strictly forbidden.

Regards
 
ivanmoe said:
I've experienced the same sort of thing flying the IL2-series of games, aircraft warping around, appearing/disappering and all sorts of other nonsense.

If you want a more satisfactory result:

1) Make sure you have plenty of bandwidth, up and down.

2) Fly with folks that are geographically correct, in relatively close proximity to yourself, to help minimize your ping.

3) Adjust the number of players admitted to the flight once that you've got items 1 and 2 nailed down. When things start to get silly, dial back the number of participants and bar additional clients.

In the absence of (a) dedicated server(s), that's about all you can do given the amount of data that has to be exchanged. Even server-based hosting is far from perfect in these regards. OFF ought to fly awesome on a GB-LAN, although I've never tried it.

ivanmoe
Click to expand...
i have removed my original answer in respect to the developers but you are wrong in your statement ivanmoe.lets just agree to disagee as no disrespect to you is intended.

I think the developers intent was and is what it is.
A beautifully put together work of art for the person who

A-- Loves ww-1 flight sims
B-- Will actually fly into history with the campaign manager. An absolutly outstanding accomplishment reeking of history.
C-- Tailor made for those who love single play.

Lets tell it like it is and leave it at that.
This is a single play game with Varying degree's of multi play sucess and anything you derive out of it other than single play is indeed a bonas.
The team and Devloper WM have put their heart, soul and indeed virtually their life's blood into what is ''THE CAMPAIGN PLAY WW-1 SIM '' without equal.
although disappointing for us onliner's I think we are wrong in exspecting ''on line play'' from a sim that was intended as single play to begin with.
In closeing, let me say i wish them all the sucess in the world for such a herculean effort to bring ww-1 to life.for those who love ww-1 flight and wish to persue it to the fullest in a self generating campaign this sim is a MUST HAVE.
For the online crowd,be prepared to work at it, get a small group together and work out the problems together. I feel if you will PM a gentleman called ''Stumpjumper'' here at S.O.H. he just may be the guy with the fortitude and determination to make your online exsperience more enjoyable.
happy flying to all,
PD
 
gimpyguy said:
Did anyone think to inquire, how deep the water was, prior to swan diving into the pool ? :wavey:
Click to expand...

I suppose I could have actually asked about MP issues before taking the plunge. I read enough to know MP was possible. If I find the MP issues to be truly unacceptable, I'll leave. :kiss:

BTW, thanks for the cheats and hints topic!

salute.gif


Grind
 
pilotsden said:
i have removed my original answer in respect to the developers but you are wrong in your statement ivanmoe.lets just agree to disagee as no disrespect to you is intended.

I think the developers intent was and is what it is.
A beautifully put together work of art for the person who

A-- Loves ww-1 flight sims
B-- Will actually fly into history with the campaign manager. An absolutly outstanding accomplishment reeking of history.
C-- Tailor made for those who love single play.

Lets tell it like it is and leave it at that.
This is a single play game with Varying degree's of multi play sucess and anything you derive out of it other than single play is indeed a bonas.
The team and Devloper WM have put their heart, soul and indeed virtually their life's blood into what is ''THE CAMPAIGN PLAY WW-1 SIM '' without equal.
although disappointing for us onliner's I think we are wrong in exspecting ''on line play'' from a sim that was intended as single play to begin with.
In closeing, let me say i wish them all the sucess in the world for such a herculean effort to bring ww-1 to life.for those who love ww-1 flight and wish to persue it to the fullest in a self generating campaign this sim is a MUST HAVE.
For the online crowd,be prepared to work at it, get a small group together and work out the problems together. I feel if you will PM a gentleman called ''Stumpjumper'' here at S.O.H. he just may be the guy with the fortitude and determination to make your online exsperience more enjoyable.
happy flying to all,
PD
Click to expand...


I think its fair to point out that OFF MP is no worse than CFS3 and OFF is an addon to that sim.

So yes MP will work as well as it ever did in CFS3.

However having said that CFS3 MP does Not work on Vista - due to craft mismatch and also does not now work on some XP SP3 systems due to craft mismatch as well.

OFF however does work without the above mismatch error limitations so we can say that it is currently offering more than CFS3 does.
There is an MP connectivity bug in 1.1 but it is fixed in 1.2.

Remember that online play is affected greatly by quality of connection and ping times - all games are affected like this
But if you bought OFF solely for MP and feel disillusioned with MP play issues (that affect most online games btw) and have no need for Single player mode then e-mail me at support@overflandersfields.com stating your case I will not treat you unreasonably.

WM
 
As the guys say, if you connect and play then MP is working, using CFS3 MP code.

If you get "lag" as it is commonly refered to in most MP games of all types (3D FPS shooters, sims, you name it) , then someone is connecing too slowly, or their connection coming across the planet is poor and "laggy" i.e. losing packets.

(could be the server, could be other players).

Also it is very important before anyone connects to change the connection speed from the default CFS3 one of 56k modem to their correct net speed (press esc, multiplayer) in game.

You should also test a connection too, from a CMD prompt
type Ping xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx where xxx is the server's IP address.

if it comes back with numbers like 200ms or 300 or more (or worse NO reply for some) then your internet connection to that person is poor.

And as to the current workaround as WM says V1.2 will have better support too - but this is nothing at all to do with connection speed.
 
Thanks Winder for such a reasonable attitude. The fault is mine. I assumed because people did play CFS3 online ( I never understood how few people actually did) that CFS3 was well suited for online play. And I assumed that because such upgrades to OFF3 had been done that the online would just be part of that.

Having said that here is an idea. Create built in delay in the online rendering. In European Air War, the user code group discovered that the online code had built in delays so that all machines connected would see the same thing and it would appear that there was no lag. For EAW 1.28A they removed those delays (computers are so much faster than 10 years ago and connection speed too) and so now we can have many more online players and I believe more than 80 AI in the sky. Then again, EAW graphics are 10 years old too.
 
Try flying a co-op against AI aircraft, like PD used to do with full missions. For some reason with CFS 3 MP matters, person vs person dogfights suffer from worse lag effects than person vs AI missions do. I found that PD's person vs AI missions lagged some, but that it was still quite playable and fun. Person vs person dogfights leave very little room for error or lag(fighting the AI is a bit more forgiving).
 
mp issues

I think sirmike pretty much hit the nail on the head.

In off2, we might have 3 players in mp dogfight, with planes spinning round as they flew. Then we would switch to a mission, Eiffle tower was always one of them, Now we have the 3 online pilots, at least 6 wingmen, no fewer than 12 ai enemy, a ton of ground features, and 99.99% of the problems we saw in dogfight mp are gone...

Find it hard to belive there isnt something different in the software that is run in mp dogfight, and a mp mission. I could be wrong, but something just doesnt make sense.

I know the devs have alot of more pressing issues to deal with right now, would just like to think that at some point in time they might be able to look at the mp dogfight problems, and see if there isnt a solution.

I was trying to make a mission in off2 that as closely as possible was a "dogfight", but when off3 came out stopped working on it. Will try and find the time to put something together for off3. Respawning an aircraft for a pilot who gets shot down was the big hangup on the off2 mission.
 
Online MP type play requires special code for the server to properly deal with the multitude of connection speeds and connectivity issues, as well as to deal with Internet latency issues. None of the MS sims have that code, and you have to have a license to use some of that code as well as the time and knowledge to add it.

The guys who have given us OFF can easily be forgiven for not having the online MP system optimized. In order to do that, they'd have to either charge a lot more for the software, or set up the necessary hardware and software and then charge a monthly subscription fee.

By the way, even when the code IS in the software, the latency of the private host server can still be a serious problem. So even if they did go so far as to purchase a license for the code and put the code in the software, if they did not set up their own subscriber based MP server system, they'd still not be able to guarantee how well OFF would run as an MP game, and as such they'd take a lot of flack for charging for it.

I'd really love for OFF to be an online MP sim, but I'm not sure I could afford to subscribe to a second sim, and I'm not sure how many others would subscribe. At $15 or so a head, I'd GUESS that they'd have to have about 2K subscribers at least, just to break even.
 
SITTINGDUCK said:
I think sirmike pretty much hit the nail on the head.

In off2, we might have 3 players in mp dogfight, with planes spinning round as they flew. Then we would switch to a mission, Eiffle tower was always one of them, Now we have the 3 online pilots, at least 6 wingmen, no fewer than 12 ai enemy, a ton of ground features, and 99.99% of the problems we saw in dogfight mp are gone...

Find it hard to belive there isnt something different in the software that is run in mp dogfight, and a mp mission. I could be wrong, but something just doesnt make sense.

I know the devs have alot of more pressing issues to deal with right now, would just like to think that at some point in time they might be able to look at the mp dogfight problems, and see if there isnt a solution.

I was trying to make a mission in off2 that as closely as possible was a "dogfight", but when off3 came out stopped working on it. Will try and find the time to put something together for off3. Respawning an aircraft for a pilot who gets shot down was the big hangup on the off2 mission.
Click to expand...


In RB3d my method was to manufacture a mission that was a simple patrol with only 2 or 3 waypoints (including t/o and landing). The flights would take off from the nearest airdrome and fly straight at eachother over the front (or another place away from the front, if it's too laggy). They are specified to meet at the same altitude or similar altitudes and be in the same place at the same time. Last survivor wins, flies home on the straight, short path. It worked in RB3d, and I would think you could easily do one in the builder for OFF.
 
mp mission

hi,

well, one thing i was trying to avoid was having the situation where 1st pilot shot down has to wait for everyone else to finish before they could fly. Obviouse solution is to have a slew of ai wingmen in the mix, and a goal that is so far out of reach that it will not be completed (seems you cant respawn into an ai wingman aircraft if the goal is accomplished). only thing i didnt like about this is that now you dont have the luxery of chosing your aircraft if you die, you just take over one of your ai wingmans planes.

but, am still hoping that someone will be able to provide an answer to the question as to why mp missions play so much better than mp dogfight.

everyone seems to want to point to internet connextion and lag as the problems, just seems to me if you go into a mission with a slew of aircraft, if its a connextion/lag problem the game is going to play WORSE, not better.

guess best course of action is to wait to see what the 1.2 patch gives us.

and, for whatever reason, we have never played team dogfight. so with that in mind, will plan to get a team dogfight mp game up tuesday nite,

stumpjumper is trying to get something together too, for a more organised mp arena.
 
pilotsden said:
i have removed my original answer in respect to the developers but you are wrong in your statement ivanmoe.lets just agree to disagee as no disrespect to you is intended.

I think the developers intent was and is what it is.
A beautifully put together work of art for the person who

A-- Loves ww-1 flight sims
B-- Will actually fly into history with the campaign manager. An absolutly outstanding accomplishment reeking of history.
C-- Tailor made for those who love single play.

Lets tell it like it is and leave it at that.
This is a single play game with Varying degree's of multi play sucess and anything you derive out of it other than single play is indeed a bonas.
The team and Devloper WM have put their heart, soul and indeed virtually their life's blood into what is ''THE CAMPAIGN PLAY WW-1 SIM '' without equal.
although disappointing for us onliner's I think we are wrong in exspecting ''on line play'' from a sim that was intended as single play to begin with.
In closeing, let me say i wish them all the sucess in the world for such a herculean effort to bring ww-1 to life.for those who love ww-1 flight and wish to persue it to the fullest in a self generating campaign this sim is a MUST HAVE.
For the online crowd,be prepared to work at it, get a small group together and work out the problems together. I feel if you will PM a gentleman called ''Stumpjumper'' here at S.O.H. he just may be the guy with the fortitude and determination to make your online exsperience more enjoyable.
happy flying to all,
PD
Click to expand...

Pilotsden:

I have no idea what you're talking about. There's not a hint of disrespect toward OFF/OBD in my comments (that you responded to above). I simply tried to provide the thread starter with some perspective in regard to "flying" online. Later on in the thread, Winder made similar comments. Suffice it to say, internet game forums can be strange places, but they needn't be so humorless or unfriendly.
 
ivanmoe said:
Pilotsden:

I have no idea what you're talking about. There's not a hint of disrespect toward OFF/OBD in my comments (that you responded to above). I simply tried to provide the thread starter with some perspective in regard to "flying" online. Later on in the thread, Winder made similar comments. Suffice it to say, internet game forums can be strange places, but they needn't be so humorless or unfriendly.
Click to expand...


None taken from myside I thought your post quite accurate.

WM
 
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