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Update on Fukushima Nuclear Accident

D

deathfromafar

Charter Member
Haven't posted anything on this in a while and decided to start a fresh thread on the subject. It's been a see-saw motion chain of even but despite some news that things appeared to be getting under control at the Fukushima Plant, things have been quite the opposite. There have been many indications that this accident is far worse then reported up to now and there has been significant belief from several world nuclear authorities that the Government of Japan and the plant owner have not owned up to the true nature of how serious things truly are. With fires and detected fission process isotopes showing up in the food chain and unsafe levels of radioactive iodine showing up in Tokyo's water supply, it's pretty much proof positive that the worst fears are likely now a reality. The IAEA has moved this to a Level 6 Accident(in step with France and other Nations Nuclear Safety arms who claimed this was at least a Level 6 Accident) and soon, it could be moved to a Level 7 like Chernobyl. The Government of Japan is finally admitting not only full meltdowns are likely to have occurred, but also a full containment breach and open air fission.

I submit these two reports from NHK news in Tokyo.

Nuke safety agency: No.3 reactor likely be damaged
Japan's nuclear safety agency says it is highly likely that the Number 3 reactor of the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant has been damaged, leading to the leak of high levels of radiation. The agency was speaking to reporters about Thursday's accident in which 3 workers were exposed to radiation from water on the floor inside the turbine building of the No.3 reactor. The level of radioactivity was about 10,000 times higher than the water inside a normally operating nuclear reactor. The agency said while the reactor appears to have partially retained its function to contain radiation leaks, there's a strong possibility that some part of the reactor is now damaged and the containment function is weakening.


An earlier report segment:


High radiation detected in water at plant
Tokyo Electric Power Company says it has detected high levels of radioactive substances in water that 3 workers were exposed to at the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant. The company says 3.9 million becquerels of radioactive substances per cubic centimeter were detected in the water that the workers were standing in. That is 10,000 times higher than levels of the water inside a nuclear reactor in operation. The level of radioactive cerium-144 was 2.2 million becquerels. Also, 1.2 million becquerels of iodine-131 was measured. These substances are generated during nuclear fission inside a reactor.
 
Somewhere I stopped trying to follow the information about this. There are just too many different sources giving different information. Next to that the Japanese gouvernment gives advice which doesn't match their own limits.

And when I look at the amount of people killed and still missing after the tsunami, I wonder whether the nuclear emergency really deserves this much attention. Personally I think more people have already died in the days after the tsunami, due to the lack of medical care, then there will ever die due to the nuclear contamination caused by the Fukushima reactors.

Huub
 
huub vink said:
And when I look at the amount of people killed and still missing after the tsunami, I wonder whether the nuclear emergency really deserves this much attention. Personally I think more people have already died in the days after the tsunami, due to the lack of medical care, then there will ever die due to the nuclear contamination caused by the Fukushima reactors.
Click to expand...

It doesnt really, but the press loved the whole "end of the world by nuke!" story .. if you've noticed now its stabalized a bit they've all switched to lybia.
 
And when I look at the amount of people killed and still missing after the tsunami, I wonder whether the nuclear emergency really deserves this much attention. Personally I think more people have already died in the days after the tsunami, due to the lack of medical care, then there will ever die due to the nuclear contamination caused by the Fukushima reactors.
Click to expand...

Huub, the consequences are stacked regarding both the original disaster and then this on top of it. I like most people am not a fan of the way many press outlets play up(and down) the stories when this level of human suffering is involved but the hard facts remain that the loss of life is very high, the damage will take years to recover from, and the situation at the Nuclear Plant is an extremely serious compounding problem on top of everything else that will have both short and long term consequences. As things currently stand, the situation at the plant is no more under control now than it was from the beginning. Every hour that goes by that an open air leak of fissionable material is released into the environment and extends to further reaches, the more serious to permanent damage is done. At this point, we're talking at the very least a third(maybe half) of the country being left unusable for farming and water supply for many generations. The human & economic toll will be felt long after the rebuilding from the Earthquake & Tsunami are past. This is not something that can be cleaned up, washed away, it stays in the ground, the water and the food chain for a very long time. The health effects will be ongoing long past our lifetime and it won't be highly visible or dramatic. The population of Japan will see a steep rise in childhood cancer cases in the next few years and well after as well as a steep level of birth defects. Adult cancer cases will certainly spike as well over time.

So yes, this is a serious matter equally deserving of attention and I hope people will look past the sensationalism in headlines of how much this factors into adding another terrible dimension on top of an already horrific tragedy.

Bear in mind, while press stories may have shifted elsewhere, the situation at the plant is still not under control.
 
Just my two pence, but you have the pro nuke crowd acting like it was minimal and the anti nuke crowd acting like it's the end of world. I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle.

And the death and devastation caused by the eathquake and tsunami is largely forgotten.

I'm okay with sensible discussion of this here, but if it gets into a pissing contest, it'll be shutdown.
 
I'll second that by adding, in posting this thread, I have no intentions of sparking debate for or against Nuclear Power and in a very general sense agree that the truth lay in between. This was intended as an update regarding the seriousness of this disaster on top of another. I would rather it not turn into a debate but rather keep it in news/information format only except adding emphasis on details that shed light on the subject.
 
Deathfromafar, I didn't say nothing is happening at the Fukushima power plant, but when I may believe official sources like the world health organisation the Chernobyl nuclear accident may result in a maximum of 4,000 casualties.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2005/pr38/en/index.html

In the drinking water in the Kiev area activity up to 75.000 Bq/litre were measured and people had not been given iodine tablets, so much of this activity was stored in glands like the thyroid gland.

From what I understand the situation around the Fukushima power plant is less serious. People have been evacuated much earlier and the highest activity measured in the drinking water so far is 210 Bq/litre.

The largest quantity of radioactive material released is Iodine-131 which has a half-life time of only 8 days. The Caesium with a half-life time of just over 30 years is of course a much larger problem and will remain in the ecological system much longer. However as most of it will end up the Pacific, it will be soon be diluted to an even undetectable level.

Therefore I think it is safe to assume less that the expected number of casualties due to the nuclear accident will below 4,000.

According to Dutch news, there are currently 10,000 confirmed deaths due to the earthquake and tsunami and 17,500 persons are still missing. So I personally think the news from Japan is but out of balance.

But perhaps my biggest annoyance is the fact that I see journalists "making" stories and using values and comparing it with other values without having a clue what they are saying. Journalists tell the people here in the Netherlands that we currently receive a higher dose due to the situation in Japan......

The current measured activity in the Netherlands is 0.00017 Bq/m3 ! In short; it is less than nothing, however journalists seem to think it is their task to scare people.

But as Willy and Wombat already mentioned this is a touchy subject, but I just wanted to vent my personal frustration.

Cheers,
Huub
(Certified radiation safety expert...)
 
Actually, I-131 has a half-life of 8 days, but it still supports the fact that it is negligible in the big scheme of things. :salute:
 
N2056 said:
Actually, I-131 has a half-life of 8 days, but it still supports the fact that it is negligible in the big scheme of things. :salute:
Click to expand...

Oops, your right of course. When I originally posted the post, I wrote Iodine-131 has a half-life.... :sleep:
Its nearly 2 AM I should be in bed!

Huub
 
With all due respect to the OP (and even more to the people in Japan that suffer from this earthquake / tsunami disaster, and nuclear fallout caused by the Fukushima powerplant):

Please, let's keep things into perspecitive.

For day's now, my newspaper has two whole pages of "news" about the situation in Japan, with the latest news being that the fallout of Fukushima has reached Europe (half the frontpage).
Causing thousands of people to panic about the consequences, and yet another Europe-wide debate about the pro's and con's of nuclear energy.
Reading on a bit in that article, "experts" claim that even with their most sentitive measuring equipment, they doubt that they can even measure this increased radio-activity.
Let alone, what it can do to public health.

In the same paper, tucked away deeply, today there's a little news item about the prohibition for Chinese people to smoke in public places, starting May 1st.
And in the same article, it's stated that, every year, 1.2 Million people in China die from the consequences of smoking.

I won't even refer to the millions of people dieing in Africa every year, due to starvation, tribal wars, etc etc .... At which we, in the "civilized western world" are apperantly so used to, that's it not even "news" anymore.

I hope you see what I'm getting at.......

Rob
 
Apparently, we're getting a bit off course here. In starting this thread, there was zero intention of following the typical sensationalizing panic button media hype. The news sources are from NHK News in Tokyo who are reading directly from JNES and TEPCO releases. The disciplined nature of NHK is far from the "hypesters" who are blowing smoke about the fallout flying over far reaches amongst other things.

I sent a PM to Huub regarding information that two of my prime consultants(both former US Army NBC Specialists who work in the Nuclear Industry) and echoed in part their concerns that early on TEPCO and the Govt were lowballing the seriousness of this matter which is also echoed by the Nuclear Regulatory arms of more than one nation outside of Japan. Slowly but surely, they are admitting that not only is the matter far worse than previously reported, now TEPCO is playing hot potato trying to hand off control of this directly to the highest authority in Japan. Not a good sign. That coupled with reports that Plutonium particulate is being found a good distance away from the plant(obviously coming from MOX fuel in #3) are starting to paint a picture at that's only a scant part of it. The fact is that there has been a lot of seriously conflicting & questionable information coming from inside TEPCO who has clearly gone out of their way to control information in the matter. When one considers that TEPCO has been caught and steeply fined for previous coverups on mishaps and safety violations, one might be inclined to question what they have said and how they have handled things up to now. For them, they are in uncharted territory right now and at the point of being on the last page of their playbook.

The fact of the matter is that this is a very serious situation that is still not stable and I emphasize, could get worse before it is over(and I dare say I hope & pray not!). The long term effects from what has already occurred won't be known until years down the road but with past history as a yardstick, the subtle but painful impact on human health will without a doubt be seen and felt and maybe never fully accounted for.

Placing things in perspective, it is about the concern for a people who are still in the midst's of awful pain and suffering and absolutely zero to do with anything else which is why my two consultants have worked a lot of hours on this pro bono and I have donated good sized sum of my own money and sent supplies to the country(not the first time I've done such things).

DFA
 
GIE Robots are Heading Japan

...That coupled with reports that Plutonium particulate is being found a good distance away from the plant(obviously coming from MOX fuel in #3)...

While looking at my electricity bills I've found this information on the EDF* site :
(I've try to translate the main part of it - be carefull I could a bit partial )

The GIE will take 130 tons of higly specialized equipment, aboard an Antonov 225 to the Tokyo Narita airport this week-end. The GIE is own by EDF, AREVA and the CEA**. The equipments consist in remote control bulldozers, precise manipulations robots, cameras and measuring instruments that can operate in radioactive areas. Those vehicules have been designed by the "hellpfull experience feedback" from the Tchernobyl disaster.

* EDF : Electricité De France
** CEA : Commissariat à l'Energie Atomique

I'm afraid for my next bill, but it's not the worse...
:engel016:
 
Quick update from sources at NHK.

The US Navy has sent heavy barges to Fukushima which are loaded with fresh water for reactor coolant pump operations. Days ago, there was considerable talk about possible problems of using prolonged sea water injection for cooling. One of my consultants asked a local GE Engineer his opinion on the issue and his response was that pushing sea water in the circulation system and core ran a high risk of causing heavy salt deposit/buildup on fuel rods and in other vital components which can impede cooling capability. Apparently this concern/risk has become reality with obvious consequences.

The other issue now is that the lower levels of containment including the wet well and dry well areas are flooded with highly radioactive water. The authorities are trying to decide how to handle that situation in terms or removal and storage of that waste.

I'm keeping a close eye on this.
 
Well, your guess is as good as mine!

It's not easy to get a clear picture right now. It's very obvious the situation is still very serious(the Govt used the word "grave") and doesn't appear to have any forward progress. I get the clear impression that the Govt there is rapidly losing patience with TEPCO and some PM cabinet member's are making open accusations of TEPCO mishandling the crisis and even lying about data. Last evening, a NHK news anchor took the unusual step of calling out both a senior Govt official and a TEPCO exec on live TV!

Here's what we do know, there is Plutonium leaking into the ground via contaminated water that has leaked from damaged containment on more than one reactor. TEPCO isn't even sure(or not indicating) which or how many may be leaking. Radiation levels are still very high on site but getting a grip on what the levels actually are isn't possible due to the fact no outside monitors are being allowed to take readings. The IAEA has stated that lethal levels exist inside and close to the buildings. TEPCO has insisted the levels are safe. Also, some photos have surfaced that show what appears to be melted fuel rod strands that have burned through and run down the side of one reactor building. Looking at the photo(taken from a helicopter), it appears nearly identical to melted fuel rod strands at Chernobyl. There are a lot of very troubling signs but still, getting through to the bottom of any truth or solid information is nearly impossible. Bits and pieces of information slipping out are how a lot of outside Nuclear Agencies are finding out things as well.

Right now, I'm trying to get my hands on the reports of the new list of particulates and isotopes that have been found at distance away from the plant as well as the new sea water readings(yes, Plutonium is finding it's way there as well).
 
The end 'solution' will be a Chernobyl-like sarcophagus. And like Chernobyl, this solution is really only temporary. We can't just gather up the fuel rods and send them into outer-space, or back to the magma. Eventually, the first sarcophagus will need to be enclosed in a larger sarcophagus... kind of like those hollow Russian dolls.

I think it is absurd for some experts to explain that it's good news the longer this takes... the more stable the situation is. It's not stable. It's just delayed. They need a clear and viable entombment plan for the fuel, or it will be the China syndrome. Cover the whole mess with lead and concrete, and let future generations figure out how to get rid of the radio-active gunk. That's the time-frame we have.

Do these guys not understand what 'emergency' means?

And, as far as 'safe' nuclear power in the future... design the plants to be 5 miles underground (safely below the aquifers), in cognizance of the probable future meltdown. Then we just need to fill in the holes when they become unstable.

Here's a laugh:
http://www.nuclearnow.org/


Dick
 
Despite the nay-sayers in the scientific community, I remain hopeful that someday, someone will finally crack the secret of cold fusion, and all this can be put behind us. :ernae:
 
Japan Wind Farms undamaged

Japan offshore wind generators are remaining undamaged after the Earthquake and the Tsunami.
As in many other farms the KAMISU generator 300 km from the Earthquake epicenter still delivers is full power. They partially prevent Tokyo from a total Black out. 174,9 Mega Watts are still available from 8 winds farms on the East coast of Japan, some other ones have to be repaired due to cables breaks.

From Kelly Rigg :
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kelly-rigg/battleproof-wind-farms-su_b_837172.html

In french :
http://energiesdelamer.blogspot.com/2011/03/japon-les-eoliennes-offshore-ont.html



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:engel016:
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I agree with Dick.

This whole thing was a major disaster and clear from the onset, despite all the lies.. oops, I mean misguided official information, from the Japanese, TEPCO and other 'experts' trying to keep us all with a warm fuzzy feeling.

Playing with nukes is silly, there is no control, no matter what the engineers may believe themselves, and it is pitifully demonstrated again by this incident, as it was in Chernobyl.

Even stopping all the nuclear plants NOW is too late... there's no place to put all that 'used fuel'..... the stuff is even more dangerous than the cores because it s just lying in swimming pools...... disasters waiting to happen.

I am 58... maybe old enough to have some life still before we contaminate our entire globe and our lives..... but I fear for my kids.
 
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