Exactly how I feel about this. I think we're about to plant a terrible legacy for future generations by employing this technology.
Cheers,
Mark
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The Staff of SOH
Update on Fukushima Nuclear Accident
- Thread starter deathfromafar
- Start date
Exactly how I feel about this. I think we're about to plant a terrible legacy for future generations by employing this technology.
Cheers,
Mark
rhumbaflappy
Charter Member
There is a method to use the 'spent' fuel rods as fuel, but that process separates the plutonium from the waste, and that can be made into nuclear weapons. That process is illegal therefore in the US, but other countries may explore it. I think GE is working on an alternate method that doesn't separate plutonium, and can therefore be used in the US.
And, I understand France is also working on the problem of using the waste to generate yet more electricity. If they can drastically reduce the volume of waste, then nuclear fuel is still viable.
To make it all safer, we need design standards that assume catastrophe... then when it happens, we'll be prepared to deal with it ( cover the hole and wait 10000 years ).
In hindsight, storing the still reactive spent fuel rods OVER the core in a swimming pool isn't such a good idea... especially in an earthquake prone area... on a coast that occasionally has tsunamis.
Dick
And, I understand France is also working on the problem of using the waste to generate yet more electricity. If they can drastically reduce the volume of waste, then nuclear fuel is still viable.
To make it all safer, we need design standards that assume catastrophe... then when it happens, we'll be prepared to deal with it ( cover the hole and wait 10000 years ).
In hindsight, storing the still reactive spent fuel rods OVER the core in a swimming pool isn't such a good idea... especially in an earthquake prone area... on a coast that occasionally has tsunamis.
Dick
Some scaring point by others...
This information came out on March 26th (from AIEA)
My translation :
In Iitate 40km from Fukushima, Cesium 137 particles have been found emiting 3260 K Becquerels /m2. Professor Hiroaki Koide from Tokyo University talks about the lack of informations but reminds us that in Tchernobyl areas where contamination spent 550 K Becquerels were evacuated, he recommands that inhabitable areas must be etablish and administrate by the Japan government.
In Tchernobyl the decision for evacuation in the conditions above was applied within 48 hours
Note : a normal human being emits 8 K Becquerels
View attachment 34466
This information came out on March 26th (from AIEA)
My translation :
In Iitate 40km from Fukushima, Cesium 137 particles have been found emiting 3260 K Becquerels /m2. Professor Hiroaki Koide from Tokyo University talks about the lack of informations but reminds us that in Tchernobyl areas where contamination spent 550 K Becquerels were evacuated, he recommands that inhabitable areas must be etablish and administrate by the Japan government.
In Tchernobyl the decision for evacuation in the conditions above was applied within 48 hours
Note : a normal human being emits 8 K Becquerels
View attachment 34466
kilo delta
Charter Member 2015
[YOUTUBE]yp9iJ3pPuL8[/YOUTUBE]
Thanks KD
...to put this thread up. :salute:
Note that 112micro Siverts/hour starts to be really dangerous in 10h and is directly Lethal in 3 days. A normal average dose should be of 1micro Sivert by YEAR !
I have informations in french saying the that the situation in F
shima is getting
worst than in Tchernobyl, so let's start by some pictures :
http://www.houseoffoust.com/fukushima/fukushima.html
For who wants to face the brutal truth.
View attachment 34932
...to put this thread up. :salute:
Note that 112micro Siverts/hour starts to be really dangerous in 10h and is directly Lethal in 3 days. A normal average dose should be of 1micro Sivert by YEAR !
I have informations in french saying the that the situation in F
shima is gettingworst than in Tchernobyl, so let's start by some pictures :
http://www.houseoffoust.com/fukushima/fukushima.html
For who wants to face the brutal truth.
View attachment 34932
Where are the medias ?
It seems that generally the level of radiations ejected from the Fukushima plant is, for today, under the level of Tchernobyl, the main difference is in the population density and in the number of reactors out of control.
Tonight we saw on french TV news a 3D animated reactor that is shown full of water, nothing shows the melted fuel, nothing to remain people the different situations in the six reactors. After that I wanted to believe that every thing will be under control, that I had to keep quiet. But after a quick search on internet It's not really the case at that time. Here is what I can resume from my different readings.
- Reactor 1 : Chain reaction suspected, nitrogen injected in the reactor heart to prevent explosion, Radiation levels is beetween 30 to 20 Sieverts (lethal in 1minute), the max measure was 162 Sieverts !
http://www.fairewinds.com/content/n...ence-periodic-chain-reaction-fukushima-unit-1
- Reactor 2 : 30% to 33% of fuel damaged, melting point reached, concrete confinement
could be damaged due to suspected gas getting out continuously, Radiation levels is beetween 30 to 20 Sieverts, the max measure was 138 Sieverts. The cooling tank is full of 3000 tons of water.
- Reactor 3 : 25% to 30% of fuel damaged (MOX the "AREVA cheese"), radiation levels are same as in reactor 1, 3000 tons cooling tank also full.
- Reactor 4 : the heart is empty, the main trouble comes from the pool where the fuel is stored and must be cooled continuously.
- Reactor 5 / 6 : both were stopped before the earthquake, so after the roofs have been pierced to prevent explosions, the situation is now under control.
Some sites :
http://eq.wide.ad.jp/index_en.html
measures from greenpeace :
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&t=h&msa=0&msid=216097317933419817421.00049f79dd8efb50bf317&source=embed&ll=37.583766,140.608521&spn=0.870622,1.535339&z=9
Kyodo news
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/04/84689.html
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/04/84666.html
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/04/84678.html
The guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/apr/11/nuclear-apologists-radiation
View attachment 34958
It seems that generally the level of radiations ejected from the Fukushima plant is, for today, under the level of Tchernobyl, the main difference is in the population density and in the number of reactors out of control.
Tonight we saw on french TV news a 3D animated reactor that is shown full of water, nothing shows the melted fuel, nothing to remain people the different situations in the six reactors. After that I wanted to believe that every thing will be under control, that I had to keep quiet. But after a quick search on internet It's not really the case at that time. Here is what I can resume from my different readings.
- Reactor 1 : Chain reaction suspected, nitrogen injected in the reactor heart to prevent explosion, Radiation levels is beetween 30 to 20 Sieverts (lethal in 1minute), the max measure was 162 Sieverts !
http://www.fairewinds.com/content/n...ence-periodic-chain-reaction-fukushima-unit-1
- Reactor 2 : 30% to 33% of fuel damaged, melting point reached, concrete confinement
could be damaged due to suspected gas getting out continuously, Radiation levels is beetween 30 to 20 Sieverts, the max measure was 138 Sieverts. The cooling tank is full of 3000 tons of water.
- Reactor 3 : 25% to 30% of fuel damaged (MOX the "AREVA cheese"), radiation levels are same as in reactor 1, 3000 tons cooling tank also full.
- Reactor 4 : the heart is empty, the main trouble comes from the pool where the fuel is stored and must be cooled continuously.
- Reactor 5 / 6 : both were stopped before the earthquake, so after the roofs have been pierced to prevent explosions, the situation is now under control.
Some sites :
http://eq.wide.ad.jp/index_en.html
measures from greenpeace :
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&t=h&msa=0&msid=216097317933419817421.00049f79dd8efb50bf317&source=embed&ll=37.583766,140.608521&spn=0.870622,1.535339&z=9
Kyodo news
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/04/84689.html
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/04/84666.html
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/04/84678.html
The guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/apr/11/nuclear-apologists-radiation
View attachment 34958
deathfromafar
Charter Member
It is official, this is now a INES Level 7 Nuclear Accident.
Excellent links, guys, thanks for sharing!
Cheers,
Mark
Cheers,
Mark
Congratulations roger-wilco-66
and to all the german citizens who partially get rid of that nightmare
Germans are at the head of a great European movement (I hope so) that
will end with the use of nuclear energy.
View attachment 35019
and to all the german citizens who partially get rid of that nightmare
Germans are at the head of a great European movement (I hope so) that
will end with the use of nuclear energy.
View attachment 35019
Well, I'm a little sceptic if this is really about to happen, because the nuclear lobby is very strong here and has strong influences in the politics. I think the government just did that to calm people down (we had a few elections here recently, which went very bad for the pro-nukes). But we'll see, and I'll support the shutdowns with my vote.
But this has to be an international movement. No use in shutting down local plants and have an age old NPS sitting at the border next to you ( Fessenheim, in an earth quake region ! ).
Cheers,
Mark
kilo delta
Charter Member 2015
Yep...Pandora's Box has been opened and with dwindling fossil fuels and generally poor results from alternative sources of energy...it looks like nuclear power is here to stay,whatever the risks involved.
wombat666
Administrator
LNG export contracts to Japan have taken a huge upward swing, and Australia has a lot of LNG.
Best investment on the market right now .......
And an 'interesting' comment from Madame Wombat who is (STILL!) working in several hospitals in Japan when we talked today.
Sofie made a couple points that we should bear in mind, "Believe nothing! The Pro-Nuclear factions are downplaying the present problem as hard as the Anti-Nuclear lobby are beating it up. The real story is somewhere in the middle ground and it will come out."
My wife is a very smart woman (except in her choice of men!) who listens to people very carefully, as one would expect of an experienced MD, and draws her own conclusions with great care.
Best investment on the market right now .......
And an 'interesting' comment from Madame Wombat who is (STILL!) working in several hospitals in Japan when we talked today.
Sofie made a couple points that we should bear in mind, "Believe nothing! The Pro-Nuclear factions are downplaying the present problem as hard as the Anti-Nuclear lobby are beating it up. The real story is somewhere in the middle ground and it will come out."
My wife is a very smart woman (except in her choice of men!) who listens to people very carefully, as one would expect of an experienced MD, and draws her own conclusions with great care.
Hello Mark
Even if the lobby is strong you have only 17 ? reactors in Germany, it will be more easy
to replace energy sources than if you had 58 ! and the people are more mobilized from
your side of the Rheine river. It was to late for Mrs Merkel to change the direction because she lost the Bade Wûrtemberg to the "Grûnen". May the chance came from a gathering that was planed before March 11th ! :greenbo:
I don't remember the year, I just remember a past hot summer when the Fessenheim reactors had to be cooled with cold water spread from the exterior, the Rheine river or more exactly the channel in front of the plant was to hot to cool it correctly.
Even if Fessenheim is more close to Germany than to Paris, I was glad to see French, Germans and Swiss manifesting together against that threat :
http://www.dna.fr/fr/a-la-une-web/info/4912542-Haut-Rhin-Fessenheim-3800-a-10.000-manifestants-pour-un-pique-nique-anti-nucleaire
Best regards
Alain
View attachment 35097
Even if the lobby is strong you have only 17 ? reactors in Germany, it will be more easy
to replace energy sources than if you had 58 ! and the people are more mobilized from
your side of the Rheine river. It was to late for Mrs Merkel to change the direction because she lost the Bade Wûrtemberg to the "Grûnen". May the chance came from a gathering that was planed before March 11th ! :greenbo:
I don't remember the year, I just remember a past hot summer when the Fessenheim reactors had to be cooled with cold water spread from the exterior, the Rheine river or more exactly the channel in front of the plant was to hot to cool it correctly.
Even if Fessenheim is more close to Germany than to Paris, I was glad to see French, Germans and Swiss manifesting together against that threat :
http://www.dna.fr/fr/a-la-une-web/info/4912542-Haut-Rhin-Fessenheim-3800-a-10.000-manifestants-pour-un-pique-nique-anti-nucleaire
Best regards
Alain
View attachment 35097
Roadburner440
Charter Member 2010
The fuel being lethal for dozens of years is an understatement.. The half life of some of these atomic particles is staggering. Sometimes being hazardous for thousands of years after. It is not so much the radiation that is emmited from the substances (granted you can die from over exposure), but the alpha/beta/gama/xray radiation that penetrates into the nucleus of your cells and destroys your DNA which stops your cells from being able to regenerate properly.... Granted there will be a large push as fossil fuel prices sky rocket to go nuclear, but there is also a finite amount of nuclear material on this planet as well. Only instead of burning it up into the atmosphere we are left with tons of radioactive waste as well to deal with. There really is no answer other than people are going to have to conserve energy along with some of the other solutions (renewable and nuclear energy). I think the day of recokoning on these matters is coming rather soon.. Which is why I traded my humongous V-8 car for a Prius in order to at least try to save some money on gas.
rhumbaflappy
Charter Member
I know this is off topic, but I had a rare sublime moment driving a Prius for a friend this winter...
10 below zero, starry night, gps-connected, computer-controlled fuel usage, incredible visibility from inside the car, sipping fuel at 55 mph. A far cry from driving a 1968 VW bus on the same road in 1970. I had to smile in recollection.
Back to topic... We need to go to renewable sources for electricity. Wind, solar or geothermal. Not enough bio-fuels.. and burning is a bad idea, anyway. And we need to control our population growth, or the type of resources won't matter. If we don't address the problem, Nature and random chance will address it for us.
Dick