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The Staff of SOH
Volkswagen
- Thread starter Rudyjo
- Start date
The penalty was made outrageous to keep manufacturers from doing something so stupid and dishonest. Won't do them any good if they pack up and go home... there will be plenty of prosecutions, fines, and penalties throughout the world. Starting with their own turf in Germany. My only question is will the Feds prosecute Winterkorn? These sleazy CEO's just seem to be able to do whatever they want. Tired of it all!
Greg
Greg
Cutting corners to gain revenue will come back to bite every time, whether it's VW, Takata (air bags), or GM. In the end, it's always the consumer left holding the bag, while Corporate justifies their actions with weak apologies and doubletalk.
50 million cars out there subject to one Recall or another... most of them on the road, and all built like crap.
Alan
50 million cars out there subject to one Recall or another... most of them on the road, and all built like crap.
Alan
is wrong with this country?!?!Ahh, but VW isn't an American Blue Chip with strong union ties, and a company the current administration naturally wishes to see succeed (based upon that very sweet U.S. structured 2009 bankruptcy).
Greg
So far I have never had a car which was capable to meet the fuel consumption which was mentioned in advertising. I have driven several brands, does this mean they were all lying? And should they all pay a penalty?
Or are car manufacturers allowed to be dishonest about consumption figures, but not about environmental related figures?
BTW I am driving my first Volkswagen, best car I have ever owned so far
And to be honest, I bought it as I thought it was a nice and reliable car and not because I though driving a car was good fro the environment *big wink*
Cheers,
Huub
PS On my country in general, a car salesman isn't really regarded the most reliable person.
Or are car manufacturers allowed to be dishonest about consumption figures, but not about environmental related figures?
BTW I am driving my first Volkswagen, best car I have ever owned so far
And to be honest, I bought it as I thought it was a nice and reliable car and not because I though driving a car was good fro the environment *big wink*
Cheers,
Huub
PS On my country in general, a car salesman isn't really regarded the most reliable person.
Lets not forget that the engine for the bailout was started by the past administration.
So far I have never had a car which was capable to meet the fuel consumption which was mentioned in advertising. I have driven several brands, does this mean they were all lying? And should they all pay a penalty?
Or are car manufacturers allowed to be dishonest about consumption figures, but not about environmental related figures?
BTW I am driving my first Volkswagen, best car I have ever owned so far
And to be honest, I bought it as I thought it was a nice and reliable car and not because I though driving a car was good fro the environment *big wink*
Cheers,
Huub
In the US they aren't supposed to lie but the EPA testing is so poor that it seems no on gets what MPG that is listed. They put a car on a treadmill and test it. I don't know but I'm going to guess that they use 100% gasoline that will give a better MPG. The 90% gasoline / 10% ethanol blend will cut MPG down by 4% if not more.
This is about the eighth new car I have owned and like it was mentioned here, they never get the mileage indicated on the window sticker.
This VW diesel is no way close to what it "should" get.
The window sticker says "35 city---43 hwy".
I do a 9 mile trip each morning ,city driving only, it gets 38 mpg.
I have done 5 highway trips of between 30 and 175 miles, it gets between 52 and 57.5 mpg.
And it doesn't even have 1000 miles on it. The break in period is around 10,000 miles, and they usually get better mileage after the break-in period.
This is what the majority of complaints are at the VW TDI forums.... in order to now meet the EPA standards, if it can be done, the power, mileage and reliability will more likely be cut way down from what it is now.
I just paid close to $25,000 for this car 3 weeks ago, and now it looks like I will be told that the power it has will be reduced, the reliability will be reduced and the mileage will likely go down by 25-30%.
That is not the agreement I had when I bought this car.
There is some talk that if VW has to reduce all these figures in order to meet the EPA standards, then they may be forced to buy all these cars back. On top of that, they could be fined up to $37,500 for each Diesel car sold in the U.S. going back to 2009. That alone would run close to 18 billion dollars.
It is going to take many years for VW to recover from this.
This VW diesel is no way close to what it "should" get.
The window sticker says "35 city---43 hwy".
I do a 9 mile trip each morning ,city driving only, it gets 38 mpg.
I have done 5 highway trips of between 30 and 175 miles, it gets between 52 and 57.5 mpg.
And it doesn't even have 1000 miles on it. The break in period is around 10,000 miles, and they usually get better mileage after the break-in period.
This is what the majority of complaints are at the VW TDI forums.... in order to now meet the EPA standards, if it can be done, the power, mileage and reliability will more likely be cut way down from what it is now.
I just paid close to $25,000 for this car 3 weeks ago, and now it looks like I will be told that the power it has will be reduced, the reliability will be reduced and the mileage will likely go down by 25-30%.
That is not the agreement I had when I bought this car.
There is some talk that if VW has to reduce all these figures in order to meet the EPA standards, then they may be forced to buy all these cars back. On top of that, they could be fined up to $37,500 for each Diesel car sold in the U.S. going back to 2009. That alone would run close to 18 billion dollars.
It is going to take many years for VW to recover from this.
Hey All,
No No Not Herbie the Luv Bug!!! Say it isn't so...
Hey I drive a wrangler jeep. I burn a quart of oil every 1500 miles like many Mexico built engines. I get crappy fuel economy 17 to maybe 22 mpg. But it's a jeep and it suits me - I'll live with it. This after 11 years with the best built vehicle I've ever driven next to an 84 Honda Accord. That was an Xterra never burned a drop of oil and was super stout. Fuel economy was about the same as my jeep.
I certainly feel for those who drive Vdubs - it ain't right. Wonder how widespread this is.
-Ed-
No No Not Herbie the Luv Bug!!! Say it isn't so...
Hey I drive a wrangler jeep. I burn a quart of oil every 1500 miles like many Mexico built engines. I get crappy fuel economy 17 to maybe 22 mpg. But it's a jeep and it suits me - I'll live with it. This after 11 years with the best built vehicle I've ever driven next to an 84 Honda Accord. That was an Xterra never burned a drop of oil and was super stout. Fuel economy was about the same as my jeep.
I certainly feel for those who drive Vdubs - it ain't right. Wonder how widespread this is.
-Ed-
I hope they are hammered hard but we know if GM can kill people and get slapped on the hand so the only hammer VW will get hit with is this one.
View attachment 29336
and find people like you self will be left with junk car and maybe after the class action lawsuit is done a free oil change coupon.
+This! Sorry Rudyjo, but you're just part of the middle class of consumers... we exist so the rich can get richer.
Greg
Edit: The first lawsuit has been filed in the U.S. Hopefully more to come... we all know no government will do the right thing.
gman5250
Charter Member
Let the bailouts begin.
VW stock took a 20% hit on the news and with the prospect of the massive cost of the recall, fines, legal costs, loss of faith and the state of the Euro, VW may be on the ropes.
Bailouts may stave the inevitable, but what is more important here is the fact that VW was operating a fraud over a period of years by utilizing an algorithm to intentionally cheat the technology put in place to ensure emissions standards.
The recent conviction and 28 year sentencing of Peanut Butter Corporation of Americas former CEO, Stewart Parnell, shows that corporate officers are not immune from felony prosecution. Let's hope this trend continues...its a long waiting list. Anyone remember Bayer/Factor 8...where are those guys now?
For years auto makers have evaded harsh consequences when knowingly producing faulty or dangerous products. The Pinto gas tank was a known design flaw but Ford had run the actuarial tables and realized that paying legal settlements for a few dead customers was cheaper than fixing the flaw.
The recent video of the "Self Parking" Volvo running over the reporters sent to cover it's debut illustrates how technology can be flawed, even if it was not intentionally designed to lie although the car was allegedly later overheard saying " I frickin' hate dudes in pink".
https://youtu.be/_8nnhUCtcO8
If this car goes to production, liability for passenger and pedestrian safety is directly attributable to the designers and corporate officers of that company.
When criminals in the corporate world start looking at hard time rather than fines less than their yearly bonus, they may look more closely at their own personal consequences rather than annual reports.
Of course a more likely scenario may go something like this.
VW gets a massive infusion of quantitative caiptal courtesy of the EU "community", VW workers are replaced with "affordable labor" while watching their pensions go down the austerity rathole, certain corporate executives resign after skimming off most of the bail out money in the form of gozillion dollar bonuses and disappear quietly to a private Greek island that they recently picked up on the cheap, suffer a conveniently timed Myocardial Infarction...and live happily ever after.
IMHO...let the beatings begin.
Side note...the HD gets 50 MPG, the wife's Honda Element 30+
I haven't driven my Silverado in almost two years.
VW stock took a 20% hit on the news and with the prospect of the massive cost of the recall, fines, legal costs, loss of faith and the state of the Euro, VW may be on the ropes.
Bailouts may stave the inevitable, but what is more important here is the fact that VW was operating a fraud over a period of years by utilizing an algorithm to intentionally cheat the technology put in place to ensure emissions standards.
The recent conviction and 28 year sentencing of Peanut Butter Corporation of Americas former CEO, Stewart Parnell, shows that corporate officers are not immune from felony prosecution. Let's hope this trend continues...its a long waiting list. Anyone remember Bayer/Factor 8...where are those guys now?
For years auto makers have evaded harsh consequences when knowingly producing faulty or dangerous products. The Pinto gas tank was a known design flaw but Ford had run the actuarial tables and realized that paying legal settlements for a few dead customers was cheaper than fixing the flaw.
The recent video of the "Self Parking" Volvo running over the reporters sent to cover it's debut illustrates how technology can be flawed, even if it was not intentionally designed to lie although the car was allegedly later overheard saying " I frickin' hate dudes in pink".
https://youtu.be/_8nnhUCtcO8
If this car goes to production, liability for passenger and pedestrian safety is directly attributable to the designers and corporate officers of that company.
When criminals in the corporate world start looking at hard time rather than fines less than their yearly bonus, they may look more closely at their own personal consequences rather than annual reports.
Of course a more likely scenario may go something like this.
VW gets a massive infusion of quantitative caiptal courtesy of the EU "community", VW workers are replaced with "affordable labor" while watching their pensions go down the austerity rathole, certain corporate executives resign after skimming off most of the bail out money in the form of gozillion dollar bonuses and disappear quietly to a private Greek island that they recently picked up on the cheap, suffer a conveniently timed Myocardial Infarction...and live happily ever after.
IMHO...let the beatings begin.
Side note...the HD gets 50 MPG, the wife's Honda Element 30+
I haven't driven my Silverado in almost two years.
Last edited:
wombat666
Administrator
I stand to be corrected but I gather this started in California, if so, is the EPA still State or has it become Federal?
California had the most draconian EPA regulations (IIRC) around 1980 or so, friends of mine were involved in developing metal coatings to meet proposed Victorian EPA legislation which was combined with the Californian regulations.
Almost impossible!.
Back to VW, if this issue develops in a full on inquiry, it will probably include Audi, Skoda and SEAT, as the smaller Audi's (S3) are a VW Golf in a party frock, while Skoda and SEAT built on assorted VW platforms.
The latest reliable figures are not good, VW shares are down 30% and do not appear to be moving anywhere but further down.
And I owned a Golf TDI a few years ago, one the best small hot hatches I've driven.
As for the fuel consumption figures mentioned here (why?), if you are capable of driving a vehicle correctly a manufacturer's claims are easily met.
California had the most draconian EPA regulations (IIRC) around 1980 or so, friends of mine were involved in developing metal coatings to meet proposed Victorian EPA legislation which was combined with the Californian regulations.
Almost impossible!.
Back to VW, if this issue develops in a full on inquiry, it will probably include Audi, Skoda and SEAT, as the smaller Audi's (S3) are a VW Golf in a party frock, while Skoda and SEAT built on assorted VW platforms.
The latest reliable figures are not good, VW shares are down 30% and do not appear to be moving anywhere but further down.
And I owned a Golf TDI a few years ago, one the best small hot hatches I've driven.
As for the fuel consumption figures mentioned here (why?), if you are capable of driving a vehicle correctly a manufacturer's claims are easily met.
Ickie
SOH Administrator
1 in 7 from Germany are affected by this industry and a $20 BILLION loss will sure hurt the people, they need to jail and strip them of all their money, all who knew of this crime. To save faith.
It wasn't a small amount but 40 times bigger then allotted amount of pollution these cars emitted.
It wasn't a small amount but 40 times bigger then allotted amount of pollution these cars emitted.
rhumbaflappy
Charter Member
This is a software issue. You'll probably get a notice to go to the dealer for a new rom chip, or a re-programming. If you don't take the car in, it won't get fixed, and then you'll still get the great MPG... The 'fix' may actually cause more net pollution than leaving it alone. Less MPG means more trips to the pump, burning more fuel, which causes more net pollution.
Dick
That is what I was think rhumbaflappy but thats the EPA and CARB for ya.