Vought VE-7 Salvage Job Salvaged

Mick

Mick

SOH-CM-2025
Back in 2008 I teamed up with Tom Wintrow and David Wooster to produce a multi-model package of the Vought VE-7 Bluebird, the plane that established Chauncy "Chance" Vought as a major aircraft manufacturer. Designed as a trainer for the Army, it went on to become a trainer, scout, attack plane and fighter for the Navy and Marines in single-seat and two-seat versions, on wheels and floats. It became the Navy's first fighter and was the first plane to launch from the Navy's first carrier, CV-1 USS Langley.

Tom worked on the 3D model, David made the flight model, and I painted the skins. Before Tom finished the 3D models he suffered a hard drive crash and all the source files were lost. When that happened he had just retired from his job and like many of us, he found that he had much less hobby time in retirement than he'd had when he was working, so the crash and loss of his then-current project was enough to push him out of the hobby and the models were never finished.

Despite being incomplete, especially in the virtual cockpits, the models could be flown. With Tom and David's concurrence I released the project as a "salvage job" in the hope that someone would be inspired to pick up the pieces and finish the project, either finishing the model if that was possible without the source files, or by using Tom's model as a reference for new models.

Well, it took more than eight years, but it finally happened! Scrubby has released a VE-7 two-seater on wheels based on that old project. I don't know if he was able to develop the original model, like how Shessi does with those old AlphaSims planes, or if he just used it as reference for a new model, and I don't know if he used David's flight model or made a new one. His skin is based on one of my originals but the mapping is quite a bit different.

I plan to adapt my other skins for the wheeled two-holer, but it will be a bit of a project because of the revised mapping. Scrubby plans to do the floatplane and the single-seat fighter, but not right away, as he wants to try making an FSX-native version of the present model first.

Anyway, the new model is on FlightSim and SimV, and my other skins will appear here when they're ready, hopefully fairly soon. In time we should have models of the single-seater on wheels and the sing;e- and two-seaters on floats.

It's been a long wait, and I'd despaired of ever seeing it, but the Bluebird flies again!
 
Mick, it does appear that Scrubb has done an all new GMAX model as the only credit given in the readme is for your original texture which he does say was modified for this model. Also Michael Pook has an update file posted as well that enhances the VC and 2D cockpit textures, plus he added smoke and VC lighting as well I believe.
 
TARPSBird said:
I was kinda hoping for a tailhook-equipped version for use aboard USS Langley (CV-1).
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Scrubby says that's on his list, but first he wants to try making an FSX-native version of the two-seater he just released.

Like the two-holer, the single-seat fighter was operated on floats as well as wheels, and he says the floaters are also on his list.
 
falcon409 said:
Mick, it does appear that Scrubb has done an all new GMAX model as the only credit given in the readme is for your original texture which he does say was modified for this model. Also Michael Pook has an update file posted as well that enhances the VC and 2D cockpit textures, plus he added smoke and VC lighting as well I believe.
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Yes, I think the model is new, that Scrubby just used the old one as a reference. But I don't know for sure, as I didn't think to ask him. I did note that the file size of the two models are quite a bit different, and the texture mapping is very different. I don't think he used David's flight model either; at least the files didn't look similar when I gave them a cursory glace. David makes very good flight models, but I guess Scrubby is pretty good at that too.

I saw Michael's update, but it's for FSX. I asked him if it should work in FS9 and he doesn't know, as he doesn't have FS9. The gauges he uses are all from FS9 though. But I think he lightened up the cockpit too much. Scrubby's panel and the original looked dark because the panel was black and Michael made it light gray. That made it look brighter and cheerier, but I believe black is correct. It certainly was the specified color for Navy planes throughout most of the Golden Age, but the VE-7 was so early that it might not have followed later specs. But I think even back then, black was probably correct.

I have converted one of the old skins and plan to convert them all. It's a bit of a task because the mapping is so different. When all the skins for the two-seaters are ready I'll upload them as a package. Then we can look forward to fighters and floaters.
 
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Mick said:
Scrubby says that's on his list, but first he wants to try making an FSX-native version of the two-seater he just released. Like the two-holer, the single-seat fighter was operated on floats as well as wheels, and he says the floaters are also on his list.
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Thanks for the reply, Mick. If Scrubby makes a tailhooker I'll grab it. :encouragement:
 
I thought he was going to make an FSX native two-holer first, that's what he said initially, but yesterday he said the single seater and the floater were almost ready.

I'm afraid I've slowed him down some. As I've been converting my initial skins to the new model, which is not s simple transfer, I keep running into little mapping issues that didn't apply to the skin he released with the model, so yesterday I kept asking for more mapping changed. Can you un-mirror the rudder, can you make separate strut texture bits for the wing and gear struts, can you texture the cowl shutters, , can you substitute this reflective model I made for the skin with the polished metal cowling, etc. He must be tired of hearing from me!

If I haven't driven him screaming from the project we might see a model update and a skin pack by this evening for the two-holer on wheels, the the fighter and the floater might follow fairly shortly. We'll see...
 
Colossal Blunder! Augggh!!

I'm embarrassed and appalled at the dumbest thing I've done yet in FlightSim!

The skins I just released are meant for the two-seat model, but he model is actually the single seater!

The skin released with the model came from the two-seater, so without looking closely at he model in the sim, I just went ahead and converted all the two-seater skins to work on the new model. I looked at the plane a hundred times while checking my progress o the conversions without ever noticing that there were machine guns where the front cockpit should have been. Yeah, the area under the upper wing in in shadow, but still...!

Soon, I hope later today, I will convert the single-seater skins for the new model and upload them.

Sorry for the confusion!

:dizzy:
 
OK, I've converted the single seater skins and sent them to Scrubby with a not about a texture mapping glitch that affects one of them. I hope he will see fit to fix the glitch.

We already have the single seat fighter model, although it is presently dressed as a two-seater (in the original release, not by me!) I hope that by this evening we'll have appropriate single-seater skins to put on it.

And I hope that pretty soon we'll have a two-seater model for the skins I've already converted. Actually, I hope we'll have two two-holers, a trainer with two pilot cockpits and a scout with a gunner's position in the rear. I hope Scrubby plans to do them both, but I don't know yet.

When the two-holer(s) are finished I will re-release the skins for it, with any adjustments that might be required for the new model(s).
 
Update: the VE-7 story is not over. The model is in the process of being rebuilt in multiple versions.

The shape-eyed may have noticed that the original release was called a VE-7 (which was the designation of the basic two-seater) but was in fact a single-seater dressed in the skin of a real two-seater. Despite being a single-seater, it wasn't quite a VE-7SF fighter, as it lacked a gun and a tail hook. It also had a curious 2D panel background that showed no less than seven cabane struts, compared to four on the real plane, the 3D model and the VC, and a windscreen rather different from the real one, the model and the VC. It also had a couple texture mapping glitches. All that has been or is is being rectified.

The first release will be the VE-7SF single-seat fighter. It will have a gun, a tail hook and a more appropriate panel. The model still needs work (such as the addition of its tail hook) but the texture mapping fixes are in place, the panel is improved (though maybe not finalized,) the gun is installed, and it should be ready soon after Scrubby returns from a vacation next weekend.

Other versions to be modeled are the basic two-seat VE-7 and VE-7F prototype/trainer/utility plane, the VE-7GF with a gun position in the rear cockpit, and the VE-7H floatplane. There will be separate versions for FS9 and FSX.

All the skins provided with the old Tom Wintrow model have been adapted to the new models, and there are a couple new ones. Some will be released with the models and others as an additional skin pack. The Army, Navy and Marine Corps will all be represented.

There won't be anything released this week due to M. Scrub's off-line, confutor-free vacation, and some work remains upon his return, but it won't be long before the revamped Bluebird will fly again.
 
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Scrubby has released the VE-7SF fighter on SimV and FlightSim.

The tail hook is missing. Scrubby said he was going to add the hook; I don't know why he left it off.

There are some minor errors in the documentation, but they have no effect on the model. It's surely the best VE-7 fighter we'll ever see and I am really pleased to have it.

An interesting bit is that the machine gun can be mounted or removed with a tap on the spoiler (slash) key. This is appropriate since the gun was not always installed on the real planes.

Scrubby has said that we can expect a standard VE-7 two-seater, and I've seen the model in an incomplete form. He also says that there will be a two-seat gunnery trainer with a flexible gun on a ring mount in the rear cockpit, though I haven't seen that one. Finally, there is to be a VE-7H floatplane. I'm looking forward to all of them.
 
TARPSBird said:
Mick, thanks for the heads-up. At your leisure, ask Scrubby about the tail hook. :encouragement:
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I asked and he didn't answer.

When he was reworking the model he said he intended to add the hook. He collected photos that showed two or three different hooks in use at different times as the Navy experimented with arresting gear, we discussed them, and I thought he'd settled on the most recent and simplest type of hook as being the most definitive version. When he left for his vacation he said he had the model almost ready except for the hook. He sent me a copy of the latest model so I could double-check the textures for any mapping glitches that might have crept in, and when I wrote back I mentioned that the tail hook was still missing. He didn't reply and the next day he released the plane without a hook.

He also disregarded my suggestion that he get permission and give credit for the sounds, which I thought looked suspiciously like those compiled by David Wooster for the old Tom Winthrow model. At least he complied with my request that he keep my name off of the blurb that would appear on SimV's pages, though he snuck my first name into the read-me file.

He also neglected to mention in the ReadMe about how to mount and remove the gun. I dunno, maybe he used up all his patience and suddenly found himself in a rush to get the plane off his desk. I just hope he hasn't gotten tired of VE-7s and put aside the almost-complete two-seater, or the floater,which I don't know if he's even started yet. We'll just have to wait and see. I hope it won't be a long wait; I'd like to see all the versions complete and in my hangar.

All the skins for the fighter were included with the model, so I won't have an add-on skin pack. There are a lot more skins for the two-seater and I'd be very surprised if he put all of them in the release, so I expect I'll have an add-on pack for that one.
 
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