Working on AVG Historical missions

H

HouseHobbit

Charter Member
I am (re) doing a set of Historical AVG/Burma missions in Rising Sun. ( never released)
Getting the facilities Built and placed so there will be lots of eye candy.
Many Thanks to the Rising Sun team, and Rob, for the Brewster Buffalo Mk I used in this set of historical missions
Brewster Buffalo Mk I

Model by Steve (Sdsbolt) Seybolt
Textures by John (Bravo/4) Whelan
Mos File by Rob (Capt. Winters) Stevenson
XDP compilation, research by Rob (Capt. Winters) Stevenson
Help files by Rob (Capt. Winters) Stevenson
Flight Model By Ted (Nachtpiloten) Kaniuka

A couple of older screenshots, and new ones with the shaders added from Master Ankor.
 

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AMAZING .... YOU are making history on such , great ,,,, variations of missions and growth on the building front .


thank you from canada and the global community
 
Hello HouseHobbit,

Nice looking Hawk 81s.

Minor detail comment though: I am fairly certain that the P-40C equivalent aircraft that were sent to China for the AVG were not capable of using drop tanks. IIRC, that was an item of equipment deleted by Curtiss for these export aircraft because they didn't have such a requirement.

On a barely related note, I am reworking a CFS1 Curtiss-Wright CW-21B. There were a couple of those flown by the AVG as well.

- Ivan.
 
Ivan said:
Hello HouseHobbit,

Nice looking Hawk 81s.

Minor detail comment though: I am fairly certain that the P-40C equivalent aircraft that were sent to China for the AVG were not capable of using drop tanks. IIRC, that was an item of equipment deleted by Curtiss for these export aircraft because they didn't have such a requirement.

On a barely related note, I am reworking a CFS1 Curtiss-Wright CW-21B. There were a couple of those flown by the AVG as well.

- Ivan.
Click to expand...

Actually the P-40C was able to have a drop tank or carry a bomb.The AVG was originally used the P-40b which could not have a drop tank or carry bombs.The B model also just had a make shift gun sight made of steel.In April/May 1942 they got some P-40E models

To bad some of Japanese planes are not available for the AVG.

Ki-27 Nate-Available
K--43 Oscar-Available
Ki-44-Available
Ki-48 Lily now available
Ki-45 Toryu-Not available
Ki-21 Sally -not available would probably need to use the Betty
Ki-30 Ann-not available Could probably get away with the new Ki-32 Mary.
 
WOW!! Been a long time since I built facilities, But have the needed items in CFS3 Rising Sun expansion to make this all look very good.
Giving the Japs a hard time of it, also have Japanese missions and a couple of Chinese ones too now.
Updated all the old missions I built last year for this set, when the ETO 1.50 expansion update took over my time.
Changed them so much that they are much different then what I sent out to be tested over a year ago..
After i get this set done, I will have to adjust the Shader from Master Ankor some for this
Off to wreck more Birds.
More rejoicing!!
:applause:
 

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In that 1 pic is that a Zero?

If it is the AVG never encountered the Zero.The Zero was pulled from the CBI before Pearl Harbor.
 
I have different years represented, and also Chinese, Australian and RAF missions and a couple Japanese missions.
May put a couple of my world infamous, Hysterical Hobbit missions in too.
Too Much fun.
More Rejoicing!
:applause: :applause: :applause:
 
TheBookie said:
Actually the P-40C was able to have a drop tank or carry a bomb.The AVG was originally used the P-40b which could not have a drop tank or carry bombs.The B model also just had a make shift gun sight made of steel.In April/May 1942 they got some P-40E models
Click to expand...

Hello TheBookie,

My understanding of the AVG Hawk 81 fighters is a bit different.

First of all, they were originally British contract fighters which the British were willing to give up for later model aircraft.
That explains the crooked Pitot Tube on the wing instead of the straight Pitot used by the USAAF aircraft.
They were not officially called P-40; instead they were called "Hawk 81A-4" if I remember correctly. There were no other users of the Hawk 81A-4 besides than the AVG.

The actual serial numbers of the aircraft however actually fall within the P-40C range. The problem with calling them P-40Cs is that they were not equipped as P-40Cs.
I believe that a few years back, Erik Shilling who flew with the AVG posted that as a pilot, he could confirm that the Fuselage Fuel Tank had external self sealing coating which would indicate P-40B equivalent and that the fuel selector had no position for a drop tank.

From other reading, the explanation appears to be the following:
Curtiss knew that there were no real specifications standards for the equipment to be installed in the Chinese Hawk-81s, so they used it as an opportunity to use up older pieces that were no longer suitable to install in current contract fighters. Thus the equipment installed varied a bit from the contemporary British and American contract aircraft. There was also some comment about the Government Furnished Equipment (GFE) being a bit inconsistent, especially the engines and guns.

So what were these aircraft really? By serial number, they were P-40Cs. By equipment installed, they were pretty much unique.

Hope that makes sense.
- Ivan.
 
TheBookie said:
In that 1 pic is that a Zero?

If it is the AVG never encountered the Zero.The Zero was pulled from the CBI before Pearl Harbor.
Click to expand...

Never encountered the A6M Type 0 in combat, but they captured a couple of them. One of them was repaired, test flown and then shipped back to the United States. I believe the ones they captured were the typical Gray Green without any splotches. I believe the captured aircraft originated from bases in Taiwan and were not operating intentionally in the CBI but ended up there because of navigational error.

The AVG captured aircraft can be recognized by the odd scalloped vents on a panel in the accessory area behind the engine. Apparently that panel was lost and a custom had to be constructed. The aircraft was heavily damaged in transit back to the USA and was not repaired for flight testing in US before the Aleutian Zero flew.

- Ivan.
 
Ivan, TheBookie, if you want some historical missions to be added to this, send me the details.
And I will build them within the limits of Rising Sun.
PM me here
and send the details and I will see if they can be translated to CFS3 Rising Sun.
Building for the CBI and the AVG.
More rejoicing!
:applause: :applause: :applause:
 
TheBookie said:
Actually the P-40C was able to have a drop tank or carry a bomb.The AVG was originally used the P-40b which could not have a drop tank or carry bombs.The B model also just had a make shift gun sight made of steel.In April/May 1942 they got some P-40E models

To bad some of Japanese planes are not available for the AVG.

Ki-27 Nate-Available
K--43 Oscar-Available
Ki-44-Available
Ki-48 Lily now available
Ki-45 Toryu-Not available
Ki-21 Sally -not available would probably need to use the Betty
Ki-30 Ann-not available Could probably get away with the new Ki-32 Mary.
Click to expand...

It's not perfect nor anywhere near historically correct, but I wonder if we can use the existing Fairey Battle to represent the Ki-30, and the Baltimore to represent the Ki-21, they have similar armament and reasonably similar performance. I'm not sure about the Ki-45 though, maybe the Po-631?
 
Some things about the P-40b. and the Hawk 81

The P-40B was the Army designation, and the Hawk-81A was the Curtiss-Wright factory designation.
Originally it had 2 x 50 cal guns shooting thru the prop and 1 x 30 cal gun in each wing.


Model H81-A2 described as the export equivalent.This si the model the AVG used that was originally
meant to go to the British.This model had 2 x 50 cal guns shooting thru the prop and 2 x 30 cal guns in each wing.


P-40C or Tomahawk IIB (Model H81-A3) is further distinguished by the addition of larger self
sealing fuel stores and a belly shackle to carry a drop tank or bomb, as well as additional
armor.


There is one difference to be noted- the company that provided the engines for the Hawk-81As
that equipped the Flying Tigers were for some reason overpowered, which gave Tiger fighters
a very welcome hundred extra horsepower,This was at the cost of significantly reduced engine hours.

It could also turn inside a Zero at speed (over 200 mph)

Records of the Zero found in China.

On November 22 a composite fighter squadron attached to the 22nd Air Flotilla HQ was created to
support the Singapore operation. Fourteen A6M2s (model 21) of the Tainan Air Group and another 13
A6M2 (21) of the 3rd Air Group departed Tainan and Takao airfields for Saigon via Hainan Island on
November 26 and 27. They arrived at Soc Trang, about 150 miles south of Saigon on December 1, 1941. '
En route to their destination, however, two Zero fighters had to make emergency landings on Luichow
Peninsula because of foul weather, and two pilots were missing in action.



The Chinese took the plane apart to move it and put it back together.It had no tiers because the villagers used them for the soles of their sandals and shoes.


HouseHobbit you do what you want to do but if you making historical missions as you say it's your job to research it,not mine. I already gave you a list of planes used and what you could for the ones not available.

Besides I have some AVG missions which I'm updating with the Ki-48 where it's needed. I can't upload them because I didn't write them,just tested them.
 
Thanks Major, I have used some of these in past missions.
Now with PTO, and Rising Sun we have a decent stock to work with I am grateful to the PTO and Rising Sun team for this.
And several Masters are developing Japanese ships for us, which to me is Just too Wonderful.
More rejoicing..
:applause: :applause: :applause:
 
""HouseHobbit you do what you want to do but if you making historical missions as you say it's your job to research it,not mine. I already gave you a list of planes used and what you could for the ones not available.""


Just making a offer , I do this for folks if there is anything in particular they might want in a mission.
They can sent me the info and I will make missions for them.
Several have in the past made such requests, which I always answer.
Off to wreck more birds.
More rejoicing.
:applause: :applause:
 
Curtiss Hawk 81 used by AVG

Hello All,

Here are links to information supporting my argument that the aircraft used by the AVG were actually in the P-40C production range. A export production and not lend-lease aircraft, they would not have had a USAAF serial number so it was actually the Curtiss Construction numbers I was describing.

Curtiss P-40B production. Note the British Serial Number Ranges
http://www.p40warhawk.com/Variants/P-40B.htm

Curtiss P-40C production. Note again the British Serial Number Ranges
http://www.p40warhawk.com/Variants/P-40C.htm

Curtiss Tomahawk production. Note the Curtiss Construction Numbers which put the AVG aircraft well within the P-40C range even though they were equipped rather more to a P-40B standard.
http://www.p40warhawk.com/Variants/Tomahawk.htm

Turns out I recalled incorrectly regarding Hawk 81A-4. Curtiss lists them as Hawk 81A-3 (P-40C equivalent).

- Ivan.
 
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