WWII air history question

[aeromed202]

Reading a book about the 9th AF, I had a question about fighter cover. It was often mentioned in the book that bombers leaving from the East coast of England, this case Essex, for Europe would rendezvous with a fighter escort at St Catherine's Point. The only such place I could locate on a map was on the Isle of Wight, way southwest from the bombers field. Did the bombers first fly southwest to meet up then turn northeast for France, or did the fighters fly up from Catherine's Point to meet with the bombers leaving their field? Neither option seems to fit the narrative.

 

[ian elliot]

For routes into northern france and the low countries, that sort of makes sence, the 9th using smaller twin engined bombers going for more tactical targets than their 8th AF brothers, also, although the 9th group airfields where in the east of England, they where at the southern area of that region, with the 8th heavy bombers further north into Norfolk and the RAF heavys further north still, i guess it was a way of keeping seperation between operations, i think each group had there own corridors to operate in abit like todays comercial air traffic in crowdid skys.
cheers ian

 

[pfflyers]

I think Ian may be on to something with his 'corridors' idea. I seem to remember reading somewhere that allied aircraft entering and leaving British airspace were obliged to use certain routes or risk being intercepted or fired on by air defence forces.

 

[stiz]

I think Ian may be on to something with his 'corridors' idea. I seem to remember reading somewhere that allied aircraft entering and leaving British airspace were obliged to use certain routes or risk being intercepted or fired on by air defence forces.

and to avoid barrage ballons, at least early war, dunno if it changed later on when the germans were pushed back.

 

[TeaSea]

I'm sure someone on the forum can provide a specific answer, and it may be that you simply have the wrong geo-location.

However, I do think it improbable that the only consideration for putting a pretty large force into a target area would be dictated by the distance that must be traveled. I know selecting the routes into objective and target areas today is it's own science. Items for consideration, beyond the simple point a to point be are de-confliction with other missions, altitudes, weather patterns (winds), personnel recovery capabilities, enemy air defense, friendly air corridors, time of day....

The list goes on and on......

In the development of the strategic bombing campaign, I would think that the AAC/USAAF was learning these things the hard way, but I suspect they were also pretty fast learners.

Be an interesting question to have answered and have plotted out for a flight.

 

[Bone]

The bomber formations joined up at different places along the east coast of England, depending on where the mission was going, and the ratio of planes generated out of certain bases. Some bases fielded more planes for various missions than others, and the ratio was always changing, except when they had a 'max effort mission'.

The places they joined up over were NDB stations that were activated along the coast, and these stations all had code names the crews new them by. One NDB that was used alot was code named 'Basher", and another was "Splasher". I'd have to go dig around in some books for some of the other names. The join up process consisted of mainly doing multiple formation turns in a holding pattern over the NDB, while the scattered elements flew in for the rendevous. The different flight elements would track to the designated NDB, and join up.

 

[aeromed202]

I'm still puzzled about the apparent conflict. Why would a bomb group fly the opposite direction to rendezvous with escorts, then turn around, retrace the route just taken then fly on to the target? If only for conservation it would make more sense to have the escorts meet more or less early along the sortie route before heading over the channel. I thought this was how it was done so I keep looking at maps for another Catherine's Point that correlates to what this book says. Recalling Dads records, these missions were something around 1 1/2 hrs flying time, which sort of bears out the en route rendezvous.

 

[Bone]

Catherines Point is a geograhic location for what was most likely an NDB with a code name. Where it is, who knows...The Isle of Wight, maybe, or it could be somewhere else that the Yank fly boys just nicknamed for the sake of nicknaming it Catherines Point. The Isle of Wight actually makes alot of sense as a rendevous, though. Mission routing for a number of missions to France did go over the Isle of Wight. France is directly south and south-east of the Isle of Wight. Take a look at your map, and see how big France is, and it's relative position to England. That may help alot...if not all.. with your confusion.

 

[Bone]

This may help.

 

[aeromed202]

Yeah, after I pulled out the bigger maps I saw I had a poorer notion of the geography than I thought and it probably was as described. I think the next thing to do is pull up the history of the fighter groups and look at it from that perspective. Thanks for the help.

 

[TeaSea]

Good project. Might be a Vet out there who has a good answer....

 

[Smashing Time]

I hope the adds to the discussion

"It was decided in January 1944 that fighters would no longer fly to a predetermined rendezvous and cover particular elements of the bomber force, but patrol areas along the whole of the bombers route.
Each group's position in the relay was determined by the aircraft it flew - the P-38s and (eventually) P-51's went up to the actual targets while the shorter range Thunderbolts were strung out along the rout. providing penetration support, with all three supporting the bombers withdrawal routes."


From 'Lion in the Sky' - US 8th Air Force Fighter Operations 1942-45
Jerry Scutts

 

[SSI01]

The aircraft types involved may have had something to do with it as well. In this case the 9thAF bombers were mediums (B-25s and B-26s, also A-26s by Douglas later in the war) that flew considerably faster than the 8thAF heavies. They also didn't fly as high, or as far. Mission times didn't have to be as long due to the 9thAF's targets all being in occupied Europe - I don't think they ever went to Germany until the Allies were back on the Continent and had captured forward airfields for 9AF use. The Germans' coastal radar stations could see air traffic over Britain, and were aware of a "build-up" prior to a raid; their radio service ("funkdienst"?) could listen in on airfield traffic and bomber radio test transmissions, thus giving an approximation of the raid's size - therefore, going to the Isle of Wight before turning would seem to be a pretty good way of keeping the enemy guessing until the last moment where the bombers were going - N/Central France? Holland? Luxembourg? Belgium? Denmark? Who would want to be a Luftwaffe fighter controller?:mixedsmi:

 

[rayrey10]

Interesting thread. What book are you reading?

 

[aeromed202]

Wings of Courage by Jack Stovall. A great read, and if you ever want to fly the Southern Route to the ETO, this book will get you through.

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[rayrey10]

Wings of Courage by Jack Stovall. A great read, and if you ever want to fly the Southern Route to the ETO, this book will get you through.

View attachment 64378

Thanks! Lately I've been reading military aviation history books. I recently read Unbroken: A World War II Story of Survival, Resilience, and Redemption. It's the story of Olympian and bombardier Louis Zamperini. It's a really good book.

I'll have to check out Wings of Courage next.