DHC-3 Otter VirtualCol - Piston Engine Fixes.

[BendyFlyer]

Update re cfg v air file. Well I have discovered that they did not include piston engine data in the air files for the piston engine versions. The data is there but for turboprop variable pitch props only, so it is a wonder that it works at all. Shows you the power of the cfg as far as FSX is concerned. Not sure if the data in re piston engines can be built back into the air file, perhaps but this is going to take a lot of work, i.e it might be awhile. It also goes part of the way to explaining why the turboprop version is such a mess as well. To be charitable I think somebody forgot what was what for a while and put it out anyway.

 

[gaab]

GAAB I somehow overlooked your 17th of JUne post or did not read it properly, would you like to post that information.

[/QUOTE]
No problem. In the mean time, I discovered you were aware of the August 2015 update.
Comparison between wheel piston aircraft.cfg (initial / udate of august).

Hope, it's what you were asking for ?

For checking updates, I recommand to use the OpenSource WinMerge (available on SourceForge). I could not live without !
For example, it helps me a lot to identify commun textures (for some FSX port-over) in order to save space using "texture.cfg" FSX possibility.

How did the panel mods work out?

I just identify that feathering was enabled, but did not modify the panel.

After reading the thread "VirtualCol Problem" were Falcon409 was describing his problems with the turbo version, I discarded it.
I should try it... on some nice airfied of Falcon409

Gérard

 

[BendyFlyer]

Hi,
sorry to resurrect such an old thread but this way it keeps the fixes together.......

....Finally got fed up and went and took a look at the contact points. Comparing them to the default Beaver I noticed that the front and back float points were way too close together. Moved the back set closer to the water rudder and the behaviour on the water is much more civilised.

Try replacing your floats contact points with the following

//Floats
point.6=4, 6.119, 5.689, -7.580, 2200, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.35, 2.5, 0.30, 0.0, 0.0, 2, 0, 0
point.7=4, 6.119, -5.689, -7.580, 2200, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.35, 2.5, 0.30, 0.0, 0.0, 2, 0, 0
point.8=4, -12.875, 5.689, -7.080, 2200, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.35, 2.5, 0.20, 0.0, 0.0, 3, 0, 0
point.9=4, -12.875, -5.689, -7.080, 2200, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.35, 2.5, 0.20, 0.0, 0.0, 2, 0, 0

and see how she behaves.

thanks
Gavin

Gavin that fix/change works fine, no porpoising on the water or other incorrect stuff that I can tell. Seems to sit more level. The floats are probably just still a little high out of the water compared to the real thing - here are a couple of pics of the Qantas Otter off Samarai Island in the lat 1950's, and they actually may be a little short in length when I eyeball the model but it depends I guess on the floats that were fitted. The Qantas Otters had there floats done by De Havilland at Bankstown in NSW but I can find no specific data as what float type was actually fitted.:

Thanks anyway makes it a little better again.

 

[BendyFlyer]

GAAB red the update changes - I would stick with the ones I put in. They are still way out for this engine and I would trust the P&W Manual more the VirtualCol sorry to say. They still don't understand this was not a feathering propeller but a simple variable pitch prop. So there is no feathering. On another level, feathering is not really necessary on a single engine aeroplane(except perhaps a turbine but that relates to the way blade angle is handled when the engine stops in a turbine which is very different to a prop control in a piston engined aircraft).

The drag from a stopped prop in a single engine aeroplane is basically a minor problem if the engine has stopped altogether and yes a slight change in the pitch angle will help the glide, so you would have coarse pitch until you were assured of landing in the emergency field picked then move it to fine pitch, that is all. For a multi-engine aeroplane it is however very important because of the drag factor and rolling moments and the amount of rudder authority you have to control the roll which results. classic example is look at the De havilland Mosquito it had a very very small fin and rudder as a consequence it had a single engine minimum control speed which was about 80-90% higher than its rotate speed, in other words you lost an engine below that speed you had no choice to shut the other down and pick a field to land in as the rudder could not provide enough control to overcome the roll/drag forces. Fin and rudder area is very important in cross wind handling as well, big fin good cross wind control, little fin poor crosswind control. One look at the Otter tells me it would have good crosswind handling capacity the lower dorsal fin is there to help directional control and overcome the resistance of the floats in a turn.

 

[gaab]

I contacted VirtualCol concerning the Otter.

I got an answer that they were working on a new update (no date of release).

Let's cross our finger...

Gérard

 

[gavinc]

Gavin that fix/change works fine, no porpoising on the water or other incorrect stuff that I can tell. Seems to sit more level. The floats are probably just still a little high out of the water compared to the real thing -

Hi,
try the following float settings, I think they make the Otter sit a little lower

point.6=4, 6.119, 5.689, -6.900, 2200, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.35, 2.5, 0.30, 0.0, 0.0, 3, 0, 0
point.7=4, 6.119, -5.689, -6.900, 2200, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.35, 2.5, 0.30, 0.0, 0.0, 2, 0, 0
point.8=4, -12.875, 5.689, -6.600, 2200, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.35, 2.5, 0.20, 0.0, 0.0, 3, 0, 0
point.9=4, -12.875, -5.689, -6.600, 2200, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.35, 2.5, 0.20, 0.0, 0.0, 2, 0, 0
point.10=5, -14.406, 5.689, -6.480, 1600, 0, 0.0, 50.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0, 0, 0
point.11=5, -14.406, -5.689, -6.480, 1600, 0, 0.0, 50.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 1.5, 0.0, 0, 0, 0

Gavin

 

[falcon409]

Don't hold your breath! Here is an e-mail from a year ago with their development guy Jose. It is in regards to their Turbo version which is all I'm interested in. This was the final e-mail after several weeks of trial and error with various changes he attempted then had me test them.


Hi,

Finally this is the maximum possible configuration without affect flight settings of engine. My friend found the FSX has a little problem with propeller behavior because in fact the FS doesn’t take this part as real life. However, the engine allows now taxi controlling power and speed from throttle as real life. If you put zero engine power the speed will reduce to zero by friction or brakes as normal procedure, and when you start engine, it’s possible now without parking brakes and the plane don’t move.

Please replace the file and let me know how it works for you. Really it’s impossible to do it better. Now, exist other problem for SKI version because the friction is low and for any reason I cannot understand the airplane continue moving, I don’t know if FS assumes all time on snow or sliding surface, but same configuration of engine works different in this version and water too, not on ground for amphibian. Recommendation for other models (Ski and water) move a -3% power to simulate real Propeller feather. For now I send to you only the file for ground taxi.

To the next update I will to do same case as recently shorts pack where the propeller lever has a -15% to reverse in propeller to generate feather and works fine because in this model the propeller was taken well in this part.

I hope over January generate a new version with all this modifications, including other solutions as flashing the beacon light and direction of propeller. If you wish comment this part in forums, thank you very much.

Kind regards,

JOSE J. GONZALEZ
Development & Commercial Chief


Please note that he states in his last line that in January of this year he was hoping to have an update. . .that never happened and unless you stay on their butts yours won't be forthcoming either.

 

[falcon409]

The above post was in regards to this:

I contacted VirtualCol concerning the Otter.
I got an answer that they were working on a new update (no date of release).
Let's cross our finger...
Gérard

The "quote" function in SOH doesn't always work.

 

[BendyFlyer]

Turbine Fixes - Sort of!

Falcon409 and others. I have had a go at the Turbine Otter. To start with the engine data as was i suspected all over the shop. I have made a number of corrections and can now get the aircraft to sit on the ground at idle power/torque without it rolling all over the place.

But first: the engine control lever pedestal is just the piston engine beaver with some new labels but it is not the type of pedestal cluster fitted to real life Turbine Otters which have the same set up as all other turboprops. So yes the first lever is power, the second propeller and the third condition but what is missing are markings to tell you where you are as far as any of these controls are situated. First the power lever on the left, when you press F1 it will come back to what would normally be low torque but not BETA range, so get it to beta range you can press F2 once or twice depends on your system and this will get it back to Beta, or you can use the mouse to get it back to Beta. I attach a pic to show what I mean.

Now here is the King Air pedestal as a comparison

Now to get reverse you just press F2 several times or use the mouse to pull the lever all the way to the rear position.

I think the feathering control for the propeller is the same in other words leave it full forward and to bring it to feather pull it all the way back.

What passes for the condition lever as far as I can tell does nothing.

Now for all three levers the cockpit tooltips when the mouse is on them read as if they were a piston engine so they are incorrectly labelled and probably poorly modelled as a result.

Another thing is that the gauges on the panel are incorrect and there should be a torque gauge and a propeller gauge as the primary or top row instruments instead of the N1 and N2 gauages where are only for pure jet setups.

I guess my conclusion is they got some things right but do not understand that a turboprop is a geared turbine and the PT6 is a reverse setup. So they mixed up the turbine RPM with prop RPM and do not really understand that power is not measure in thrust but torque.

Heres the section to change in the cfg file:


[GeneralEngineData]
engine_type=5 //0=Piston, 1=Jet, 2=None, 3=Helo-Turbine, 4=Rocket, 5=Turboprop
Engine.0=0.981, 0.0, 0.220 //(feet) longitudinal, lateral, vertical distance from reference datum
fuel_flow_scalar=1.0 //Scalar for fuel flow efficiency
min_throttle_limit=-0.4; //Minimum percent throttle. Generally negative for turbine reverser

[propeller]//hartzell HC-B3TN-3DY
thrust_scalar=1.0 //Propeller thrust scalar
propeller_type=0 //0=Constant Speed, 1=Fixed Pitch
propeller_diameter=8.5 //11.48 //Propeller Diameter, (feet)
propeller_blades=3 //Number of propeller blades
propeller_moi=19 //Propeller moment of inertia
beta_max=45 //Maximum blade pitch angle for constant speed prop, (degrees)
beta_min=15.6 //Minimum blade pitch angle for constant speed prop, (degrees)
min_gov_rpm=19500 //25520 //Miminum governed RPM
prop_tc=0.001 //0.004 //Prop time-constant
gear_reduction_ratio=18.75 //17.4 //Propeller gear reduction ratio
fixed_pitch_beta=0 //Fixed pitch angle of fixed pitch prop, (degrees)
low_speed_theory_limit=80 //Speed at which low speed theory becomes blended in (feet/second)
prop_sync_available=0 //Prop synchronization available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
prop_deice_available=1 //Prop de-icing available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
prop_feathering_available=1 //Prop feathering available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
prop_auto_feathering_available=1 //Prop auto-feathering available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
min_rpm_for_feather=40 //700 //Minimum RPM for prop feathering
beta_feather=87.0 //Feathering pitch angle (degrees)
power_absorbed_cf=1 //0.9 //Coefficient of friction for power absorbed by propeller
defeathering_accumulators_available=0 //Defeathering accumulators available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
prop_reverse_available=1 //Prop reverse available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
minimum_on_ground_beta=14 //1.0 //Miminum pitch angle on ground, (degrees)
minimum_reverse_beta=-16 //-15.0 //Minimum pitch angle in reverse, (degrees)

[TurbineEngineData]
fuel_flow_gain=0.03 //0.011 //Gain on fuel flow
inlet_area=0.5 //1.0 //Square Feet, engine nacelle inlet area
rated_N2_rpm=37500 //33000 //RPM, second stage compressor rated value
static_thrust=70 //160 //Lbs, max rated static thrust at Sea Level

[turboprop_engine]
power_scalar=1.0 //Scalar on Turboprop power
maximum_torque=2230 //1865





However with the changes to the cfg. file I was able to have sit on the ground without rolling forward using the method describe above and to land and come to a stop with reverse. It was ok but not brilliant anyhow have a play see what you think. This was the wheeled version not the floatplane I am going to have a go at grafting in the torque and rpm gauges from the default FSX King Air and see if that helps or will work. That tomorrows job.

 

[BendyFlyer]

Turbine Otter Panel Mods

Well that was not as difficult as I thought, the Default FSX King Air gauges went in ok with some adjustment and seem to be ok:

To do this just add this section into the panel.cfg of the relevant turbine otter VC01 section:

//--------------------------------------------------------
[Vcockpit01]
Background_color=63,63,63
size_mm=1024,1024
visible=0
pixel_size=1024,1024
texture=$dhc3turbo

gauge00=Bendix_king_radio!Bendix-King Radio Nav-Comm 1, 732,12,280,102
gauge01=Bendix_king_radio!Bendix-King Radio Nav-Comm 2, 732,113,280,102
gauge02=Bendix_king_radio!Bendix-King Radio ADF, 732,214,280,70
gauge03=Bendix_king_radio!Bendix-King Radio AP, 732,434,280,84
gauge04=Bendix_king_radio!Bendix-King Radio Xpndr, 732,283,280,83
gauge05=Bendix_king_radio!Bendix-King Radio Audio, 732,516,280,54
gauge06=Bendix_king_radio!Bendix-King Radio DME, 732,365,280,70
gauge07=fs9gps!gps_500, 187,9,533,396
gauge08=Vcol_dhc3_otter!compass, 16,13,161,156
gauge09=Vcol_dhc3_otter!Icon_atc, 124,182,33,33
gauge10=Vcol_dhc3_otter!Icon_stairs, 19,217,33,33
gauge11=Vcol_dhc3_otter!Icongps, 19,182,33,33
gauge12=Vcol_dhc3_otter!IconRadio, 89,217,33,33
gauge13=Vcol_dhc3_otter!Iconchklist, 54,182,33,33
gauge14=Vcol_dhc3_otter!Map_Icon, 88, 182 ,33,33
gauge15=Vcol_dhc3_otter!Iconthrottle, 53,217,33,33
gauge16=Vcol_dhc3_otter!airspeed, 19,437,150,150
gauge17=Vcol_dhc3_otter!clock, 30,280,127,127
gauge18=Vcol_dhc3_otter!rmi, 185,613,150,150
gauge19=Vcol_dhc3_otter!vsi, 363,615,150,150
gauge20=Vcol_dhc3_otter!turn_bank, 21,615,150,150
gauge21=Vcol_dhc3_otter!Attitude Indicator, 186,440,150,150
gauge22=Vcol_dhc3_otter!fuel, 26,796,150,150
gauge23=Vcol_dhc3_otter!suction, 193,800,150,150
gauge24=Vcol_dhc3_otter!volts_amps, 531,805,150,150
gauge25=Vcol_dhc3_otter!annunciators_fuel_and_oil, 873,795,128,74
gauge26=Vcol_dhc3_otter!electrical_load, 870,885,133,77
gauge27=Vcol_dhc3_otter!altimeter, 347,452,150,150
gauge28=Vcol_dhc3t_otter!OIL1_temppres, 698,807,150,150
//gauge29=Vcol_dhc3t_otter!ITT1, 835,604,152,154
gauge29=KingAir!Itt1, 865, 624, 152,154
gauge30=KingAir!Torque1, 537,617,152, 154
gauge31=KingAir!PropRpm1, 707,623, 152, 154
gauge32=KingAir!FuelFlow1, 361,804, 150, 150
//gauge30=Vcol_dhc3t_otter!NP1, 507,607,152,154
//gauge31=Vcol_dhc3t_otter!NH1, 672,610,152,154
//gauge32=Vcol_dhc3t_otter!Fuelflow1, 361,804,150,150
gauge33=Vcol_dhc3t_otter!Horizontal Situation Indicator, 518,420,195,195

 

[falcon409]

As far as I can tell, applying the posted changes to the wheeled version, there is little difference. With brakes off it immediately begins to roll and on a 5000' strip it reaches about 60kts with no advance in power beyond idle. Also, using the F1 and F2 keys as noted also shows no effect. No reverse is noted and as far as I can tell, using your picture as a guide, it will not enter beta range. This could be because I see only a slight difference in the position of your power lever (yours appears to even with the letter "E", using the upper edge of the portion that goes into the slot. . . .whereas mine in even with the letter "L".) At any rate using the F2 key or the mouse seems to have no effect it simply bounces back up to it's normal position.

 

[gavinc]

As far as I can tell, applying the posted changes to the wheeled version, there is little difference. With brakes off it immediately begins to roll and on a 5000' strip it reaches about 60kts with no advance in power beyond idle. Also, using the F1 and F2 keys as noted also shows no effect. No reverse is noted and as far as I can tell, using your picture as a guide, it will not enter beta range. This could be because I see only a slight difference in the position of your power lever (yours appears to even with the letter "E", using the upper edge of the portion that goes into the slot. . . .whereas mine in even with the letter "L".) At any rate using the F2 key or the mouse seems to have no effect it simply bounces back up to it's normal position.

Falcon409, - I just tried the changes on the turbine float plane. You have to hit F2 a couple of times but the changes do seem to help (ie reduce) the runaway effect. You still have to hit full reversers to get the darn thing to stop on landing.

Gavin

 

[falcon409]

Falcon409, - I just tried the changes on the turbine float plane. You have to hit F2 a couple of times but the changes do seem to help (ie reduce) the runaway effect. You still have to hit full reversers to get the darn thing to stop on landing.
Gavin

Well as I noted, hitting F2 does nothing and no amount of F2 activates the reverser. If it works for you, great. . . .my post above indicates otherwise.