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( RELEASED ) Northrop RF-61C Reporter BETA

Open palette

This is a great model and understandably still a work in progress.
I'm wondering if you could leave in place a few open vcockpit surfaces so those of us who are
panel geeks can place gauges we may like to see. The ones that I can think of are the observers
panel, the little O2 panel by the pilot, the limit lights panel and the lights box..?
Of course I have no idea what you have planned for the future so what I have wrote may be complete garbage.

A lot of folks have been waiting for this plane, maybe we can help out a little bit.

(panel graphics are Lobo Da Silva, gauges by Milton and others)
 
Something that I have always wanted developers to do, but few will, is to provide a model that has flat panel spaces so the user can place their desired gauges, radios, and avionics. I'm a modern day flight simmer, so I like having a GPS, modern radios, maybe weather radar, and a place for beacon and strobe switches in the virtual cockpit. That is one reason why I so enjoy Milton Shupe's D18S and A-26 Invader.
 
Pam,
Thank you for that explanation of the low speed theory blending setting! That is THE first explanation I've seen of it that makes sense to my little pea brain.
I wonder why no other developer I've seen changes it from 80. I can't believe no other go fast plane can go slow enough that 80 is appropriate. By the same token, I am FAR from a person with thousands of aircraft. Maybe I'm just missing it when the developers DO change it.
Then again, that wondering applies to a lot of default settings in the aircraft.cfg file I see as I go.
Thanks again!

I've DL'd and installed AFSD should it become necessary. I will also take your advice on changing the prop RPM. Like I say, I'm probably doing something wrong. We shall soon see what we shall soon see, si? :loyal:

More to come later, after I get some stick time on this fantastic plane.
Pat☺
 
DC1973 said:
Yup, thanks for all the testing and observations folks! Pam sounds like she's well on top of the engine issues, and although there are numerous modelling bugs they're all fortunately very easy to fix.

Regarding the cowl flap gauges: I am not yet at the stage where I can develop my own. I did build a custom airspeed indicator for the Reporter, but that was a bit simpler. As the airplane can be used in either FSX or P3D, I didn't want to alias a gauge that would work in one sim and not the other. Therefore, I decided to leave it to the user to pop a gauge in there if they want to. If you have altered the panel yourself and it works in either sim, then please feel free to distribute the revised panel to the wider community as an add-on once we release the official v1 :)

P.S. The port wingtip vapour trail is an artifact in the engine smoke gauge which shouldn't be there, it's being fixed.
Click to expand...
For the vapour trail I simply disabled the top line in the smoke section. The other pair still appear when pulling Gs. I'm gonna try the updated file now.
 
Running on P3D 4.2 here, and it's a great flyer!

I bumped into the prop speed issue as well, but it was when crossing FL400.
They went all the way to the far end of the dial and from then on, setting them to full fine was the only way to get them back into the red zone until landing. The rest of the handling feels excellent and the stability on approach is awesome.

The plane is apparently capable of exceeding it's critical mach number in level flight and even in a slight climb at those altitudes with full throttle applied.
No other strangeness was encountered and the ceiling seems to be 54-55k (estimated, I stopped around 54.5k) where handling is...as expected in very thin air but perfectly controllable nevertheless..

Other notes:

The skins are pretty awesome and screaming for bump maps! (do the masters exist in 4096?)
The aluminum probably needs to be a bit clearer/whiter? Just going from the available pictures.

Quite amazing work on an airframe I always found fascinating. My thanks as well!
 
​I have installed the most recent version with the fix but the engines are still reversed. Use the key to start #2 engine but #1 starts instead.
 
AussieMan said:
​I have installed the most recent version with the fix but the engines are still reversed. Use the key to start #2 engine but #1 starts instead.
Click to expand...

Hi Pat..
Yes, we've experienced that ourselves, all of us, and have been working to find the cause. We've switched engines around in the fde, we've switched engine switchees around: about the only thing we havent done is put the plane upside down. Please trust that this issue is being examined in depthas it appears to be something in the animation code. Please bear with us..

Pam
 
Hello, from the other Pat :D
I did some testing and I found that the RPM situation seems to be related to 3 different variables: Altitude, Manifold Pressure, and Airspeed.
To wit: Let's say that the altitude is held at 20,000' MSL, to eliminate one variable. I found that at 40" MP, the RPMs stay in the red zone, AS LONG AS THE AIRSPEED remains above 300 KIAS. If one were to, say pop the speed brake out, and thus slow the plane to 200, or even 250 KIAS, the RPMs will drop as well, and are adjustable. If the speed brake is then withdrawn again, and the airspeed climbs to 300 KIAS or greater, and it will at that MP, the RPM's will go back up into the red area and remain there.

It will do this down to 12,500' MSL, and then becomes adjustable normally, if the MP is adjusted properly, regardless of airspeed. For example, if one drops the MP to 35", after a minute or so, the RPMs may be set to 2450, and the MP may then be increased to 45" and the airspeed will increase to nearly 400 KIAS. The RPMs will remain at 2450.

I've never seen a plane do this before, so I am at a total loss here.
Now if it had JET engines, I'd be a lot better off. But then, if it did, the prop RPM wouldn't exist, sooooo...

Pat☺
 
PhantomTweak said:
Hello, from the other Pat :D
I did some testing and I found that the RPM situation seems to be related to 3 different variables: Altitude, Manifold Pressure, and Airspeed.
To wit: Let's say that the altitude is held at 20,000' MSL, to eliminate one variable. I found that at 40" MP, the RPMs stay in the red zone, AS LONG AS THE AIRSPEED remains above 300 KIAS. If one were to, say pop the speed brake out, and thus slow the plane to 200, or even 250 KIAS, the RPMs will drop as well, and are adjustable. If the speed brake is then withdrawn again, and the airspeed climbs to 300 KIAS or greater, and it will at that MP, the RPM's will go back up into the red area and remain there.

It will do this down to 12,500' MSL, and then becomes adjustable normally, if the MP is adjusted properly, regardless of airspeed. For example, if one =airspeed will increase to nearly 400 KIAS. The RPMs will remain at 2450.

I've never seen a plane do this before, so I am at a total loss here.
Now if it had JET engines, I'd be a lot better off. But then, if it did, the prop RPM wouldn't exist, sooooo...

Pat☺
Click to expand...

Your at least in the ball park with your hypothosis. What your seeing, is one of the oddities, of FSX and perhaps computer based flight simming as a whole. You see; in a real engine made with steel and aluminum, everything fits together a very specific way to function a very specific way. In Flight Sim, that doesnt always hold true. In flightsimming theres no drive shaft diameter, or bearing gauge or even any difference between roller conr or ball bearings. Theres an engine, and it has friction. Thats all flight sim sees. an engine and friction.
In a real engine, when friction increases heat increases, the engine melts down and your left with a pile of slag.
and heres the catch.
In a computer engine, when the friction is too high, the computer ( your physical machine via flight sim ) looks at the instructions you input for MP, RPM and ALT. and instead of melting down, will do whatever it has too, to satisfy those instructuions, like raise the horsepower and shaft rpm to insane levels. So, your no longer seeing a 2800 HP beast running at 2700 rpm. You're seeing a 4000 HP monster running at 5000 RPM.
This tells flight sim to rotate the propeller to full Beta ( 54*), and keep it there. That prop is locked at wide open, and the sim will do whatever it takes to keep it there.

The only way to slow the plane down at that point, is chop the throttle and get down into thicker flight sim air, then wait for the engine too respond.

That whole cascade of events listed above, is the product of naive programming. You see, theres nowhere that publishes friction values between the crank and the mains. most of us fde people fumble around in the dark using other values impacted by this friction as a flashlight to see whats going on, so we can adjust it accordingly. None the less, I didnt follow it all the way through in this case and we ended up with an engine that does exactly what your saying it does, all because a few roller bearings, were too large, creating too much friction.

I'm going to PM you the link to the current FDE as I have it today. It should fix this specific issue. However, Its a WIP, as everything in an FDE is directly and indirectly related to everything else, and fixing one part opens up discrepencies, in other parts. In this particular case, You may have to goose the gas like an old studebaker when you start it up. I just now finished a clean start test and rpm is controllable throughout the full range except when its too low to fit in the rpm control range. (i.e. idling and during acceleration ).
This FDE works on my machine and gives me the correct output across the board, but thats my machine. I want to know if it works on yours. If it works, great, on too the neext step. If it doesnt, we find out why: ergo the reason I asked you to download AFSD. Lets do this shall we??
Pam
 
Hello,

I too wish to use Milton gauges, but I can not find the texture of the panel! Who can tell me where she is?
Thank you all!

Alain
 
Hello, Pam!
Thanks for the updated files. I am DL'ing them as we speak, and will get the bird in the air ASAP to see what's what now.

I know you're busy, but when you have time, even if it's after the final edition of the plane is posted, could you tell me just which parameters you changed for this whole RPM "thing"?
I'm nosey, and as they say, knowledge is power. If you'd rather, I can go through and dig out what's been changed myself, it would just be a faster process if you told me. :)
Or, if you think it'd be more instructive, just give me a hint as to where to look, and I'l dig it out myself. I always felt it was better to learn by doing, as they say.

Thanks a lot!
Now, up, up and awaaaay! :loyal:
Pat☺
 
alain0568 said:
Hello,

I too wish to use Milton gauges, but I can not find the texture of the panel! Who can tell me where she is?
Thank you all!

Alain
Click to expand...

I used FS Panel Studio to open the panel.cfg and select the "Radios" window.(the only choice)
Next in panel studio go to the "Window" drop down menu and select "VCockpit01".
Now you should see all the gauges used in the virtual cockpit.
Double clicking on the gauges will get you size and location, now just substitute.
 
PhantomTweak said:
Hello, Pam!
Thanks for the updated files. I am DL'ing them as we speak, and will get the bird in the air ASAP to see what's what now.

I know you're busy, but when you have time, even if it's after the final edition of the plane is posted, could you tell me just which parameters you changed for this whole RPM "thing"?
I'm nosey, and as they say, knowledge is power. If you'd rather, I can go through and dig out what's been changed myself, it would just be a faster process if you told me. :)
Or, if you think it'd be more instructive, just give me a hint as to where to look, and I'l dig it out myself. I always felt it was better to learn by doing, as they say.

Thanks a lot!
Now, up, up and awaaaay! :loyal:
Pat☺
Click to expand...

Not a problem.
In the aircraft.cfg file theres an entry for "max_rpm_friction " and a second for Min_rpm_friction..
 
Hi Pam.
Ok, I installed the latest aircraft.cfg and .air files you sent.
The RPM problem,as it existed , is fixed. I had full control of the RPMs throughout the entire flight envelope, except:
Now when I slow down, as though for approach and landing, 110-130-ish kts, full flaps and gear down, at about 2000' MSL, although I kept it level at that altitude and adjusted MP to maintain airspeed, I couldn't get the RPM high enough now to match up with recommended values posted in this thread. 30" MP, 2000 RPM.
I could get the MP easily, but the RPM's stayed down around 1800-1500. Again, it depended on MP and airspeed. I didn't try it at any other altitudes. I will later this evening, when I have time. Even when descending at 600 FPM, the RPM's on full high-speed, or full fine, or however you care to say it, they never came above about 1700, assuming the correct airspeed. Just above stall.

Since this was all done at the end of my flight time available, I couldn't get super detailed tests in. Again, I will test it more this evening.
Just wondering: Is there a POH or something similar available? Airspeeds for different phases of flight, weights, MP, RPM's Flap settings, and so on?
I got the flap speeds and full flaps/no flaps stall speeds, cruise speed, etc out of the aircraft.cfg file, no problem, but it'd be nice to have good, Northrup info available to use.

Thanks again, this is a really fun plane as far as the WAY it flies! How much stick or rudder input is needed for different maneuvers etc is very realistic. At least I gotta assume it is, never having flown in a real one :biggrin-new:
I even pulled a full loop. Great fun indeed!
Pat☺
 
Good evening Seahawk72s,

-Thank you for your reply!
What I'm looking for is the texture of the panel, and to be able to make disappear the tower (front) of the instruments to be able to replace the original gauges by those of Milton (Rosa26!).
See what's left on the panel surface once the gauges are removed (Vcocpit 01)
-Or are the textures: Panel_Decals_DC3_1.bmp and
file_1024_night = DC3_background_night.bmp?
I can not find them!
Thank you for your help!




Alain

-
 
warchild said:
Hi Pat..
Yes, we've experienced that ourselves, all of us, and have been working to find the cause. We've switched engines around in the fde, we've switched engine switchees around: about the only thing we havent done is put the plane upside down. Please trust that this issue is being examined in depthas it appears to be something in the animation code. Please bear with us..

Pam
Click to expand...
I decided to go flying in the XF-11 after some Reporter time and its engines do the same thing so at least this isn't the first time that it has happened to someone and at least the animations are separate on both planes. (And best of all you guys are trying to do something about it.) On the Abacus P-61 When you start #1 both props start turning! (Oh I can't wait for the SOH P-61!) For now I just watch my gauges and don't look out the window until they're running!
 
alain0568 said:
Good evening Seahawk72s,

-Thank you for your reply!
What I'm looking for is the texture of the panel, and to be able to make disappear the tower (front) of the instruments to be able to replace the original gauges by those of Milton (Rosa26!).
See what's left on the panel surface once the gauges are removed (Vcocpit 01)
-Or are the textures: Panel_Decals_DC3_1.bmp and
file_1024_night = DC3_background_night.bmp?
I can not find them!
Thank you for your help!




Alain

-
Click to expand...

Hi,
The bezels or the "tower" front of the instruments are hard modeled in and can not be changed.
You have to replace the existing instruments in the exact location and size in order for them to appear
directly under the openings. There is no bmp like in a 2D panel to work with or from.

Try some of these settings and see how they work for you.

Code: 
gauge14=ROSA26!A26 Alt,  10,  232 ,120,120
gauge15=ROSA26!A26 ASI,  10,90,117,130
gauge16=ROSA26!suction,  150,386,90,90
gauge17=ROSA26!Oil Temp,  664,297,120,120
gauge18=ROSA26!OAT,  568,575,90,90
gauge19=ROSA26!Comp Repeat,  275,234,120,120
gauge20=ROSA26!CHT,  798,297,120,120
gauge21=ROSA26!CAT,  662,561,120,120
gauge22=ROSA26!A26 TC,  140,235,120,120
gauge23=ROSA26!A26 Fuel Press,  800,432,115,120
gauge24=ROSA26!A26 GFI,  800,558,120,120
gauge25=ROSA26!A26 MP,  666,165,117,120
gauge26=ROSA26!A26 Oil Press,  665,432,120,120
gauge27=ROSA26!A26 RPM,  799,165,120,120
gauge28=ROSA26!A26 clk,  540,429,110,118

gauge30=ROSA26!A26 AI,  426,48,240,253
gauge31=ROSB26K!RMI,  139,97,120,130

gauge34=ROSA26!PLD,  770,87,40,64

gauge39=ROSA26!A26 vsi,  274,103,120,120
 
Hi everyone,

Thanks again for all the testing and observations! We think we've got enough collated now to go for all the fixes ready for the wider v1 release. Pam's hard at work on the FDE and I've got a list of modelling tasks to work through. It should only take a few days to get the Reporter whipped into shape :)

Regarding the panels: as stated up-thread, the instrument bezels etc are 3D and hard modelled in. Their positions equate to those found on the real Reporter. However, you can pop any gauge you like within them - I only selected the DC3's gauges due to them being free with FSX as default and from the correct time period, until the day that I learn to fully code all my own gauges. The P-61C will be much the same but with a slightly different layout :)
 
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