Pricing and Marketing Model

G

gary20

Charter Member
I'm really taken aback by the marketing model DCS uses.

I do think the prices are outrageous and I believe will be the downfall for this particular simulator.
But, it's this marketing model that has me bamboozled.

If I wanted the new F-18 it would cost me 103.74 Canadian, but it's not finished .. it's "early access".
Why would I pay that much money for something not yet finished?
Or the other aircraft that appeals, the Razbam Harrier, for 90.77 Canadian.
But it too is not finished and only "early access".
Large parts of the aircraft "dont work".


So then I need somewhere to fly. Perhaps the new Persian Gulf would be appropriate for these planes.
64.83 Canadian and again "Early Access" and not finished.
Do I also have to purchase the world little by little?


All of these together would cost me 259.34 Canadian in total and none are finished !!!


All I can think is this would buy me an aweful lot of addons for P3D.
I'll pass on DCS and will watch its progress with interest.
 
Over the years I have tied up many thousands of US dollars in FSX/P3D products and right now have less than $500 tied up in DCS yet the immersion and feel I get out of it is for me vastly superior to what I have gotten out of FSX/P3D. Yeah, the Harrier isn't finished but what you get thus far is leaps and bounds better than an FSX/P3D version. The V/STOL Flight Dynamics alone are vastly better than what can be obtained in FSX/P3D for such a model. The Hornet is the same, unfinished but the systems and flight dynamics have no equal in other sims. When either of those models are finished, they will be outstanding & without equal. The Persian Gulf map is also excellent at this juncture and IMO potentially the most dynamic combat map made for DCS so far. Insofar as their marketing model, so far it's delivered better working models than a number of early access models in FSX/P3D (many of which remain unfinished a few years after being placed in early access). It's an investment that from my years of involvement and investments in simulation products, it's a good investment.

My inclination is to move away from Microsoft based products into the realm of DCS and XP11 which I feel are eclipsing the legacy sims and will continue to do so.
 
Hello gray20, I can only echo what Storm has stated.

I Would invite you to download/try DCS World 2.5 for FREE....It comes with two incredibly High Fidelity Aircraft,If you don't feel it's worth investing into The Sim after giving it a try then you've lost nothing .
 
Thanks Gents

I admire your loyalties to the product.

I have downloaded it and enjoy the VR experience especially.

I'm wrestling with jumping in when it's so pricey and when nothing is completed.
It's a lot of money if it all doesn't last like so many other Flight Sims these days and where you'd be stuck with incomplete aircraft you'd paid full price for.

I guess I'll carry on wrestling with it all for now.

Gary
 
gary20 said:
Thanks Gents

I admire your loyalties to the product.

I have downloaded it and enjoy the VR experience especially.

I'm wrestling with jumping in when it's so pricey and when nothing is completed.
It's a lot of money if it all doesn't last like so many other Flight Sims these days and where you'd be stuck with incomplete aircraft you'd paid full price for.

I guess I'll carry on wrestling with it all for now.

Gary
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Hi Gary,Well I can only state my personnel opinion of The Harrier...........IT'S THE BOMB!!!!!!:mixed-smiley-010::mixed-smiley-010::mixed-smiley-010: Iv'e been flying it since early release and have never felt let down by my purchase.
The VTOL Aspect is like nothing I've really experienced in any flight sim......I Would only encourage you to look into the many.many vids on YouTube and get a feel of the community.

Hey Buddy,I totally understand the money aspect of flight sims.....If you can wait there's usually a season sale at DCS,You can pick up some older titles at 30% off.
Hope this Helps....All The Best to You!:wavey:
 
gary20 said:
Thanks Gents

I admire your loyalties to the product.

I have downloaded it and enjoy the VR experience especially.

I'm wrestling with jumping in when it's so pricey and when nothing is completed.
It's a lot of money if it all doesn't last like so many other Flight Sims these days and where you'd be stuck with incomplete aircraft you'd paid full price for.

I guess I'll carry on wrestling with it all for now.

Gary
Click to expand...

Gary,

I do understand about the pricing but on the other hand, you get a lot of functionality even out of early release models. The systems depth is considerably greater than most FSX/P3D models which like those sims, you can set up these models up and running lined up on the runway or cold and dark startup. I have looked at the price of the Harrier and Hornet and compared them to my PMDG and other high end models and the overall investment is on par with the quality you receive. The positive side is, once you buy into these DCS models, you're not going to have to pay for a separate version or upgrade in the future. All of the DCS aircraft that I have are outstanding (even the simple upgraded FC3 models) but the Hornet and Harrier are simply outstanding. I do understand that pulling the purchase trigger on high end stuff is a bit tough, I've been there on many products current and past but these models for me offer a lot more than most. One thing that has helped me mitigate follow on purchases is the bonus system. I have done well with that when buying the different aircraft and scenery modules.
 
The modules are very expensive, but they are also very, very good, and total recreations of the real things from external modelling, internal modelling, to sounds, systems, and failures. You can think of every DCS World aircraft as a combat aircraft equivalent of a PMDG airliner.

It took me a long time to get in to DCS World. I actually had the boxed version of the A-10C for years when it was a standalone product and never used it until after it was converted to a module for DCS World. Once I did start to fly in DCS World and took the time to do some tutorials and fly some missions and campaigns I was hooked entirely. I still spend more time in FSX/P3D, as I have a lot invested in aircraft, scenery and time in those sims, and still love every aspect of those sims. DCS World is just so immersive and the more you learn about a single aircraft the more enjoyment you get from it.

I picked up a lot of my modules at 50% to 70% off over the years, and I have also taken advantage of pre release prices on a number of more recent products starting with the Mirage, then Normandy and the Assets Pack, and most recently the Hornet and Persian Gulf.

I honestly don't regret any purchase in DCS World. I just wish I had more time to fly in it along with my other sims. Over the years I acquired the TM HOTAS Warthog controller, some Saitek rudder pedals and Oculus VR, and to this day flying the Warthog in VR with those controllers is still my favourite simming experience.

The modules are so in depth and well recreated, you could honestly spend years getting enjoyment from one single module, and in one map, so in that sense, the cost is fairly relative. DCS World is much more about being in the cockpit rather than looking out the window at different parts of the world.
 
Thanks again Gents

Appreciate the encouragement.

Well, maybe there will be some sales and I'll take the leap.
Cant see the Hornet or Harrier going on sale when they're still Early Access, but perhaps the Mig-15 and/or F-86f could persuade me to start down the DCS road.

Gary
 
Gary, I can only fully agree with the statements that others made above. But I have a few additions. The fact that aircraft remain unfinished for so long may be partly due to the definition of ‘finished’ that the developers use. I think that many FSX/P3D developers would call most of their aircraft ‘finished’ when, or even before, they are of ‘unfinished’ DCS quality. Second, we are used to the prices of FSX/P3D planes, but why should they be the norm? I can understand that most people are satisfied with FSX/P3D quality, and (nearly) every DCS plane can, as far as I am aware, also be obtained for FSX/P3D. As a combat simulator, DCS is in a completely different league. To me, the price-quality ratio is even better than with FSX/P3D planes. There is no norm for the price of simulator planes, just like there I no norm for the price of cars. You buy a cheap or expensive one depending on taste or budget. The fact that I can fly a Mustang or a Hornet for ‘just’ $ 80 or so is still simply fantastic to me! My flights in a real Mustang cost me $ 2,000 for 20 minutes each, and in my view the DCS Mustang with VR is totally ‘as real as it gets’, to paraphrase the competition.
 
For the most point I do agree with the above statements and I'm very satisfied with them, however one module which I bought a good number of years ago never seems to have been completed, and shows no sign that it ever will be, the BAE Hawk. It's been a massive disappointment with the developer making promises that it never keeps. They even deleted on of the included missions (dogfight) when DCS was upgraded to 2.5, when asked about it they said it was being updated but wasn't ready for the 2.5 release. Has it been released since? Of course not!


Regards,
Ian
 
It's very interesting. This business model is precisely what DTG was trying to achieve with FSW. It failed miserably. Why? Because there were 3 alterative sins available that did the same thing. P3D, FSX Gold, FSXSE, and to a lesser extent X-Plane 11. DCS is not going to fail. There's no competition. NONE. It's got untold numbers of players and TBH it's actually amazing to see the number of painters that exists in that community. I mean, there are a ton! DCS models everything. It's entire game platform is incredible. If you want to create a truck with a radio antenna that broadcasts a mobile VOR or NDB, YOU CAN! If you want to create a mission where missiles don't do damage with guns will kill, you can! If you want to create a towed target behind another aircraft you can. You want to create a charge detonation in an aircraft after you use guns on it to create an explosion you can! Do you want a JTAC to laser a target for you to long release and the LGB find the last on its way down... Yup, you can! AA TACAN? Yup! Actual AA rrfueukimg with hose and boom hookups and real radio calls from the tanker and aids from the boom operator? Yup! Do you want to be able to have actual aggressor aircraft in the ramp with you, and activate them via radio, where they will head out to an actual MOA and operate effectively against you? Want to be able to call knock it off? Do you want to be able to use your actual voice to command your AI wingmen or talk to AI ATC? Yup!!! FSrecorder style data output for everything that happens in a mission to be played back? Yup! What about GA? It's coming! Most! aircraft are 99% modeled in terms of systems etc. Best sense of speed I've ever had. Visually incredible. All terrains are fully stocked. Want to see soldiers weighing around it have them use shall arms against you? Yup! Ballistic Ricochet? Yup! In fine, it's really the ultimate sim. There are some improvements that are needed, additional maps, and weather engine that is better.... But man nothing like as good under overcast as this sim does.... And it performs like a modern game. Using your system specs to their limits. Native VR.
 
I take the attitude, I often spend $100++ easily on an evening out and for what? Three or four hours entertainment and possibly a disappointing and mediocre dinner which I know my wife and I can easily outperform at home (we are foodies). But that same money or less goes on and on giving for year upon year. Heck I am still flying stuff I bought for FSX in 2007/8. These things are not cheap to produce and involve many man hours for a relatively small user group.
 
gary20 said:
Thanks again Gents

Appreciate the encouragement.

Well, maybe there will be some sales and I'll take the leap.
Cant see the Hornet or Harrier going on sale when they're still Early Access, but perhaps the Mig-15 and/or F-86f could persuade me to start down the DCS road.

Gary
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Have them both, highly recommend them. The F-86 is easily more maneuverable than the Mig-15 but the Sabre doesn't have the zoom/sustained climb rate of the Mig. The Sabre's controls are very fluid and harmonized whereas the Mig-15 has poor roll rate due to it not having boosted control surfaces but depending on the speed, you have plenty of pitch authority for turns and climbs. One thing I won't dispute, the Mig-15's firepower can shred an F-86 with a momentary burst. I have killed the Sabre with a single hit of the 37mm and 2 to 3 round bursts of the 23mm (even in nearly 90 degree angle deflection shots). The F-86's 6 .50's pale by comparison. I have emptied my magazines on a Mig and failed to fully kill it. Such is why I aim for the wing or cockpit when flying the Sabre against the Mig.
 
Naismith said:
I take the attitude, I often spend $100++ easily on an evening out and for what? Three or four hours entertainment and possibly a disappointing and mediocre dinner which I know my wife and I can easily outperform at home (we are foodies). But that same money or less goes on and on giving for year upon year. Heck I am still flying stuff I bought for FSX in 2007/8. These things are not cheap to produce and involve many man hours for a relatively small user group.
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I could not agree more. The value of DCS planes for me is often much higher than the price. And it is a niche market; I am grateful that those dedicated people at ED develop a simulator of this quality at all. Yes, you have to be more selective than with FSX/P3D if you have a limited budget. With those sims you can afford so many planes (often freeware) that you must be able to afford hardly ever flying any one of them. It sometimes amazes me to read on the forums how many planes people buy. Their choice, of course, but I am content with fewer but much more rewarding planes (and luckily being able to buy the occasional P3D plane as well, but hardly flying it anymore).
 
Stickshaker said:
I could not agree more. The value of DCS planes for me is often much higher than the price. And it is a niche market; I am grateful that those dedicated people at ED develop a simulator of this quality at all. Yes, you have to be more selective than with FSX/P3D if you have a limited budget. With those sims you can afford so many planes (often freeware) that you must be able to afford hardly ever flying any one of them. It sometimes amazes me to read on the forums how many planes people buy. Their choice, of course, but I am content with fewer but much more rewarding planes (and luckily being able to buy the occasional P3D plane as well, but hardly flying it anymore).
Click to expand...


Totally agree. I haven't turned on P3D in months....just the honest truth. Only to test the XF-92A. I don't have much time right now anyway, but when I do fly it's DCS. THe visuals are so stunning that when I turn on P3D, I am disappointed to the point where I just turn it off. I only keep it installed for using the Milviz F-100D and the Glowingheat A-12. As of today, the F-4E Phantom is in development for DCS and they just announced that the Blk 50 F-16C is now in development. My primary location to fly has always been the NTTR in P3D and is my default airport. So for me I've got an unmatched scenery with airports so detailed it would blow your mind and your PC in P3D, and the Middle East. With the Straight of Hormuz map now I've got the best of both worlds. Caucasus is very good now in v2.5 being completely updated. I'm not abandoning P3D (far too much invested for that). But I'm taking a long break. When P3D goes PBR, I will return with enthusiasm.
 
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