Milton Shupe's Grummans

[FlyingsCool]

Hi,

So, all of Milton's Grummans list checklists and reference copyright by Jan Visser, but, so far, I can't find any check lists or references. A couple of the planes have what seem to be incomplete Ops.txt files. For instance,

"Carrier Landings

See Reference"

But no reference

I did see a reference to this in beta forum thread, and Milton gave some information, but it didn't seem to reference Carrier Landings specifically, and it sort of contradicted the info that is in the "Ops.txt" file.

@Mike71 suggested I use the speedbrake when approaching the carrier with the plane, but, I don't see any animation related to a speedbrake, and I don't see any control for it in the aircraft.

In a somewhat related other question, Milton says the searchlight can be turned on and off with a switch on the co-pilot's control joystick, but when I activate the switch I see no light. Is there no light in the search light? Is the feature just not finished yet? I couldn't find any reference to the switch in the panel.cfg, and there's no "lights" section in the aircraft.cfg, although there are some lights listed in the "electrical" section.

Anyway, just wondering if there's any general knowledge on these planes out there. Apparently Milton used to have a "Grumman" page on an old website that no longer exists that had checklists on it. Is that information anywhere to be found (I've searched high and low).

Thanks

Edit: Checked the Wayback Machine, no luck on a checklist/reference

 

[Mike71]

-----@Mike71 suggested I use the speed brake when approaching the carrier with the plane, but, I don't see any animation related to a speedbrake, and I don't see any control for it in the aircraft.--

As I said in another related post, I was referring to your comments regarding the T-28. You are correct, the S-2/C-1/E-1 had no speed brakes

 

[Mike71]

----- So, all of Milton's Grummans list checklists and reference copyright by Jan Visser, but, so far, I can't find any check lists or references. A couple of the planes have what seem to be incomplete Ops.txt files. For instance,

"Carrier Landings

See Reference"

But no reference

------

Here is some accurate data for an S-2D/E/G. Other versions and the C-1 vary in weight and engine versions but the basic flying speeds at similar weights should also be similar. I cannot vouch for the accuracy of the air files for Milton's airplanes, but given his reputation I doubt if they are very far off.

These airplanes were different from jets - they decked launched frequently and different flap settings could be used depending on the ship, wind, temp, weight etc. However landings were normally full flap in a power approach - back side of the curve. At max landing weight in the S-2, rudder shaker occurred at 78 KIAS, stall at 70 KIAS.

Max cat: 29,150 lbs
Max trap: 24,150 lbs
Gear & Flaps - max extension/retraction: 150 KIAS
1/3 flaps normal for field takeoff
SE min control speed: 90 KIAS
Normal liftoff: 100 KIAS
Carrier min app speed (max trap wt) - full flaps: 90 KIAS power approach

 

[MrZippy]

Definitely no speed brakes but spoilers work fine!

 

[Mike71]

Definitely no speed brakes but spoilers work fine!

Problem here is that is not how they worked. The spoilers on these aircraft were for roll augmentation due to the small ailerons (limited due to the requirement for a large flap area). NATOPS makes no reference to their capability to use as speed brakes and no checklists or cockpit references show any method of deploying them symmetrically.

However, if that is the way Milton designed it, using them to help with CV approaches is likely quite useful. I will have to try it out.

 

[MrZippy]

Problem here is that is not how they worked. The spoilers on these aircraft were for roll augmentation due to the small ailerons (limited due to the requirement for a large flap area). NATOPS makes no reference to their capability to use as speed brakes and no checklists or cockpit references show any method of deploying them symmetrically.

However, if that is the way Milton designed it, using them to help with CV approaches is likely quite useful. I will have to try it out.

Hi, Mike! Yeah, I was only able once to make a successful carrier landing with this bird. I think I activated the spoilers about 200 yards from touchdown. I'm sure I needed a quick skivvy change after that!

 

[Mike71]

Hi, Mike! Yeah, I was only able once to make a successful carrier landing with this bird. I think I activated the spoilers about 200 yards from touchdown. I'm sure I needed a quick skivvy change after that!

I tried out the S2F-3 model (not sure if it is updated) at 24.5K GW at 90 KIAS full flaps / no "supposed speed brakes" - seemed to fly pretty well and trapped on CVN68.

Approach to stall tests seemed pretty accurate, characterized simply as a high sink rate, no pitch break or roll off - with high power, high sink does not get out of control until about 60 KIAS, very high nose attitude. Unrealistic, but very docile for FS use.

If you do use the "inaccurate" spoilers for speed brakes, put them out at the start of your approach and fly it that way all the way to the "cut"; don't go changing configuration after the start of your final approach in the groove.

 

[FlyingsCool]

Thanks Mike! This is awesome, exactly what I was looking for for information!