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Beaufighter VIC

Talon

Talon

Members +
I don't know about anyone else but I've found the Beaufighter VIC AI won't attack with bombs.They just fly over the target and gain alt.I've followed them for about 10 miles and they never turned back to attack.


Talon
 
Hmmm

I don't know if it makes a difference but in the .dp the aircraft is set at category=4 which makes it a torpedo bomber. Maybe if you change it to something else? I only make the aircraft, I am not a .dp specialist . . . .

:faint:
 
Bismarck13

It's the airfile and not the dp file.The dp is setup right for bombing and dropping multiple bombs.I put in another airfile and the AI attack their targets.


Talon
 
hmmmm

Guess I better hold off uploading some other variants until this gets solved.

I have a couple more almost ready . . . .

:caked:
 
Here's a pic after I put an airfile from another plane,as you can see the Beaufighter AI drops it's bombs.


Talon
 
Hmmm

I just tried the Beau with original airfile and the .dp set to unit_family=2 and category=6 which is the setting for a bomber/strike aircraft and a formation of AI bombers dropped their bombs right on target . . . .


:kilroy:
 
Three questions Bismarck..

Did they level bomb or make a glide attack?

Was this against a moving target or a static one?

Where they able to perform a strafing attack?
 
. . .

It was a static target and they level bombed it . . .

I didn't try any other stuff. Lemme see what happens if I attack a ship . . .
 
Talon said:
Bismarck13

It's the airfile and not the dp file.The dp is setup right for bombing and dropping multiple bombs.I put in another airfile and the AI attack their targets.


Talon
Click to expand...

The airfile has no influence. The attack behaviour it's a DP problem.

Cheers


Pepe
 
Howdy Peperez,

I changed mine from a 5 to a 4. Regardless, this won't matter as a player formation AI, they'll still act like a Cat. 1-4-10 etc.. The 5 will only make non-player AI formations level bomb. If you take a Cat. 5 aircraft and make them part of the Player's Formation they will glide/dive bomb, not level bomb. Even Family 2 aircraft like B-17's and B-24's will do this.

Talon is right, the root problem is in a combination of the air file and the MOI's in the aircraft.cfg. In this case they can't even start their attack runs. They keep climbing away from their assigned target. They never reach the drop point. Even after messing with the MOI's in the CFG they would still not drop their payload. This problem is pure airfile/CFG MOI's.

Talon, from the sound of it has a finished product, the one I was working on is OK; but too hot, too fast and turns way too well. It needs a bunch more work. I've got a bunch of B-25's to get out the door right now so I'd suggest you work with Talon on incorporating his Airfile/Aircraft.cfg MOI numbers into your next release to ensure that the Beaufighter AI's can perform the types of missions they were historically assigned to. As you must well know the Beaufighter, beyond its droppable munitions was a superlative Strafing aircraft. That would be the first test I personally would run on these BF's.

This is a great and much needed project with a ton of promise. I will be more than happy to help out as time permits if you need it though with my real world and current CFS2 work load it may be slow. Talon is on the right track and this ain't his first rodeo with issues like this.
In short, opportunity is knocking at your door...

Have a good one gents, real world work is a callin'.....
:ernae:

 
Thanks Pen,But I know nothing,I see nothing and I do nothing.:icon_lol:

Here's the Beaufighters doing a gun attack on a moving ship.They will also drop bombs on it.


Talon
 
Pen32Win said:
Howdy Peperez,

I changed mine from a 5 to a 4. Regardless, this won't matter as a player formation AI, they'll still act like a Cat. 1-4-10 etc.. The 5 will only make non-player AI formations level bomb. If you take a Cat. 5 aircraft and make them part of the Player's Formation they will glide/dive bomb, not level bomb. Even Family 2 aircraft like B-17's and B-24's will do this.

Talon is right, the root problem is in a combination of the air file and the MOI's in the aircraft.cfg. In this case they can't even start their attack runs. They keep climbing away from their assigned target. They never reach the drop point. Even after messing with the MOI's in the CFG they would still not drop their payload. This problem is pure airfile/CFG MOI's.

Talon, from the sound of it has a finished product, the one I was working on is OK; but too hot, too fast and turns way too well. It needs a bunch more work. I've got a bunch of B-25's to get out the door right now so I'd suggest you work with Talon on incorporating his Airfile/Aircraft.cfg MOI numbers into your next release to ensure that the Beaufighter AI's can perform the types of missions they were historically assigned to. As you must well know the Beaufighter, beyond its droppable munitions was a superlative Strafing aircraft. That would be the first test I personally would run on these BF's.


This is a great and much needed project with a ton of promise. I will be more than happy to help out as time permits if you need it though with my real world and current CFS2 work load it may be slow. Talon is on the right track and this ain't his first rodeo with issues like this.
In short, opportunity is knocking at your door...

Have a good one gents, real world work is a callin'.....
:ernae:
Click to expand...

Sorry, I can not believe it. The MOI just commands FLIGHT behaviour. If you change the values you may got an uncontrolable plane, at air and at land. Using Air Wrench you find the exact number you need to take off, fly and land it as the real think. It'll be stupid to link this to a category at the DP, but, as we known, CFS2 it's a Microsoft product...

Cheers

Pepe
 
peperez said:
Sorry, I can not believe it. The MOI just commands FLIGHT behaviour. If you change the values you may got an uncontrolable plane, at air and at land. Using Air Wrench you find the exact number you need to take off, fly and land it as the real think. It'll be stupid to link this to a category at the DP, but, as we known, CFS2 it's a Microsoft product...

Cheers

Pepe
Click to expand...
Empirical method....always has the last word over theoretical assumption.
I've tried some of Talon's modified aircraft and they do,as AI, attack moving targets and infrastructure.
 
Believe it or not. The Category will only effect Non-Player Formation AI aircraft. Though the Beaufighter should be a Category 4 which will allow it to function in historically correct rolls as both a Player Formation and Non-Player Formation AI. But the Category only dictates the Attack Profile the Non-Player Formation AI’s will attempt to use, not if they can actually do it successfully.

Try this. Take any Category 5 aircraft, your pick, make a small test mission. Set up two formations of them. One Player Formation with 4 aircraft. Create another 4 aircraft formation of the same aircraft. Create two targets with an Attack With Bombs WP on each one. Then open the mission with Notepad and make the aircraft a Family 2. Fly it. The Non-Player formation will level bomb, the player formation, when you command them to attack will Glide/Dive bomb the target you assign them. If they can...

On the MOI’s and the Airfile. CFS2’s AI control has some limits as to what it can do. Large/Heavy Fighters and Attack Aircraft (Think A-20, B-25, Mossie, Beaufighter, Whirlwind, Typhoon, P-47, P-38, TBF… I’ve dealt with all of these aircraft concerning this issue) generally above 10,000lbs with large MOI’s cannot perform many types of attacks, especially when moving targets are concerned, if the target is turning it only makes it worse. They’ll try and try but they’ll never salvo their bombs or in the case of Strafing runs they’ll just pull up without ever firing a shot. Time and Time Again. The reason they can’t complete their attacks in most cases are the MOI’s. Also, 1% Airfiles and other very complex ones of the same nature have this problem constantly, they’re just too complex for the AI’s to deal with.. While it may not be as realistic, simple airfiles, like the stock ones, and some MOI manipulation is often required to get the AI’s to do what they should in the Heavy Attack Aircraft role. This is after all a Combat Flight Simulation and if the AI’s can’t do their job you’ve got FS2002 with weapons. This is why some designers revert to making two aircraft, a player and an AI Only version.
 
Pen32Win said:
Believe it or not. The Category will only effect Non-Player Formation AI aircraft. Though the Beaufighter should be a Category 4 which will allow it to function in historically correct rolls as both a Player Formation and Non-Player Formation AI. But the Category only dictates the Attack Profile the Non-Player Formation AI’s will attempt to use, not if they can actually do it successfully.

Try this. Take any Category 5 aircraft, your pick, make a small test mission. Set up two formations of them. One Player Formation with 4 aircraft. Create another 4 aircraft formation of the same aircraft. Create two targets with an Attack With Bombs WP on each one. Then open the mission with Notepad and make the aircraft a Family 2. Fly it. The Non-Player formation will level bomb, the player formation, when you command them to attack will Glide/Dive bomb the target you assign them. If they can...

On the MOI’s and the Airfile. CFS2’s AI control has some limits as to what it can do. Large/Heavy Fighters and Attack Aircraft (Think A-20, B-25, Mossie, Beaufighter, Whirlwind, Typhoon, P-47, P-38, TBF… I’ve dealt with all of these aircraft concerning this issue) generally above 10,000lbs with large MOI’s cannot perform many types of attacks, especially when moving targets are concerned, if the target is turning it only makes it worse. They’ll try and try but they’ll never salvo their bombs or in the case of Strafing runs they’ll just pull up without ever firing a shot. Time and Time Again. The reason they can’t complete their attacks in most cases are the MOI’s. Also, 1% Airfiles and other very complex ones of the same nature have this problem constantly, they’re just too complex for the AI’s to deal with.. While it may not be as realistic, simple airfiles, like the stock ones, and some MOI manipulation is often required to get the AI’s to do what they should in the Heavy Attack Aircraft role. This is after all a Combat Flight Simulation and if the AI’s can’t do their job you’ve got FS2002 with weapons. This is why some designers revert to making two aircraft, a player and an AI Only version.
Click to expand...

This could make some sense, but attack with heavy plane never was an easy work. In this case it's a lot better create specific AI planes than mess up with the MOI. The risk to damage the aircraft airmodel it's real.

Pepe
 
With what I've done the planes takeoff,land and attack with no problems.This is AI and Player aircraft.With just a new airfile they will drop bombs and strafe static targets but moving ships they will only attack with torpedoes and strafe them.With new MOI in cfg file they still takeoff,land and attack targets with no problems but will also attack moving targets with bombs plus torpedoes and strafe them.

If you want I will just wash my hands of all the whole thing and let someone else figure it all out.


Talon
 
Argghhh

If you want I will just wash my hands of all the whole thing and let someone else figure it all out.
Click to expand...


Yikes . ..

I have no clue what to do. I have a whole bunch of different Beaufighters I need to upload but won't attack anything . . . .

If I have to make an airfile that works it will be 2020 before anyone sees any more Beaufighters

:karate:
 
Talon said:
If you want I will just wash my hands of all the whole thing and let someone else figure it all out.


Talon
Click to expand...

Who is this "you"? I say get in there boots and all. Your expertise is too valuable to lose. I for one always value your work, Talon.
:jump:
Mike
 
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