Details Matter: Pilot Scaling Still Unresolved

[merida72]

With all due respect for the incredible work done on MSFS over the years, I'm genuinely surprised that there still isn't a definitive solution to the pilot scaling issue.

I fully understand that priorities are many and that developing such a complex simulator involves a tremendous amount of work. However, after more than four years and an entirely new version of the sim, it's hard not to notice how much this small detail still feels out of place.



In my specific case, the issue isn't related to default aircraft, but rather to models by Blackbird Simulations—yet the problem remains exactly the same. The pilots appear noticeably too small in relation to the cockpit, breaking immersion in an otherwise visually impressive experience.

I truly hope this aspect will be considered in future updates, because even the smallest visual details make a real difference in terms of realism and overall perception.

Has anyone else noticed the same thing, or perhaps found a temporary workaround?

 

[Javis]

IMHO there are a couple of reasons why pilot figures can sometimes be designed too small in relation to the aircraft the're suppose to fly. (strangely enough almost *never* too big...;-)

#1. Designing something 'material' is one thing, designing a 'living character' is another.

#2. No scale drawings to work with like can be done with aircraft models. A dev usually has to 'wing it' re a pilot figure.

#3. There are devs that can't wait to put a pilot figure in their aircraft model. ( they find it interesting to design something different than aircraft, as kids they've been standing in the bushes alongside the taxiway feeling over the moon when a jet pilot would wave at them, created plastic aircraft models with special attention to the pilot figure, collect pilot helmets and buy books about them, etc and so on) (like me ;-)

#4. There are devs that care about a pilot figure non whatsoever. They'd rather put the effort and time it would cost into the aircraft model itself.

#5. (most important) The dev at hand is way too much at awe with the aircraft he's working on, puts it on a too high pedestal and therefore unsubconsiously creates a too small (modest) figure of himself to fly it. Hence he will only examen photo's of the external aircraft while paying no attention to the pilot flying it.

Well, that's atleast something i can come up with. Inevitably there must be a reason for this still recurring problem, isn't it. It may well be something Freudian... ;-)

Like you i have always felt a bit annoyed by too small pilot figures.With a bit more investigation it is not necessary, there are millions of aircraft photo's to look at and you get good views on the pilots while sitting in the cockpit with lots of 'em. On your example it is easy to see as well. The pilots flying the model look like they are childern....

The model i have the biggest problem with regarding this topic is the T-33. Inibuilds should take much better care of those poor guys and give them a proper daily meal to eat ! (or maybe the're childern too, then we should report them, shouldn't we..;-)

In ending, no matter what, i do think we're just a couple voices crying in the wilderness, Meridia, maybe along with a few colleagues. I think most flightsimmers don't care much about pilot figures. In any case they don't see the problem, they are probabely likewise too much at awe with the aircaft too.

 

[Mathias]

There's a reason why 3d modellers are usually specialized on either rigid meshes or organic meshes.
Each requires a considerably different skill set. I certainly know why I keep my fingers away from character modelling.

 

[Snuffy]

This is a matter of 1:1 scale ratio. IF the aircraft and the environment are truly drawn 1:1, there should be no reason pilots and/or ground crews cannot.

On average, most males range between 5'-8" and 6'-1" meaning a good average of 5'-10" or 5'-11".

This should be a standard for all modelers.

Chances are the pilot was drawn to one standard and the aircraft a different standard, whether metric or imperial. Not using enough decimal places for conversion would result in larger or smaller outcomes.

As an engineer doing my design work in 3D I do everything 1:1, my human model stands at 5'-11". He's never short or tall.

 

[Mathias]

Actually, there's only three scenarios I can think of, as a dev:

#1 The character is at a wrong scale but readily rigged, what makes it difficult to rescale it without mixing up the bone structure and animations.

#2 the devs are struggling with rigging within the narrow cockpit space so they decide to scale it down to get more room/tolerances for animations.

#3 The character isn't rigged/animated at all and the dev doesn't know how to properly align an organic mesh with the aircraft's controll surfaces.

Make your pick.

 

[tiger1962]

I believe it's the pose of the figure itself which is the problem:
Feet can stick through the cockpit floor and out of the fuselage, heads can stick through the cockpit roof, elbows out of the fuselage sides...
I bought a couple of add-on male and female pilots and co-pilots in various uniforms/casual wear for MSFS2020, they were the same scale as the default figures but most of them stuck out of most of my planes in the above ways and I had to stop using them.
An off-the-shelf 3D model of a person seated is likely to be a person seated as though on a dining chair, for example, with their feet flat on the floor whereas a person driving or flying will have their feet forward, on the pedals.

 

[merida72]

IMHO there are a couple of reasons why pilot figures can sometimes be designed too small in relation to the aircraft the're suppose to fly. (strangely enough almost *never* too big...;-)

#1. Designing something 'material' is one thing, designing a 'living character' is another.

#2. No scale drawings to work with like can be done with aircraft models. A dev usually has to 'wing it' re a pilot figure.

#3. There are devs that can't wait to put a pilot figure in their aircraft model. ( they find it interesting to design something different than aircraft, as kids they've been standing in the bushes alongside the taxiway feeling over the moon when a jet pilot would wave at them, created plastic aircraft models with special attention to the pilot figure, collect pilot helmets and buy books about them, etc and so on) (like me ;-)

#4. There are devs that care about a pilot figure non whatsoever. They'd rather put the effort and time it would cost into the aircraft model itself.

#5. (most important) The dev at hand is way too much at awe with the aircraft he's working on, puts it on a too high pedestal and therefore unsubconsiously creates a too small (modest) figure of himself to fly it. Hence he will only examen photo's of the external aircraft while paying no attention to the pilot flying it.

Well, that's atleast something i can come up with. Inevitably there must be a reason for this still recurring problem, isn't it. It may well be something Freudian... ;-)

Like you i have always felt a bit annoyed by too small pilot figures.With a bit more investigation it is not necessary, there are millions of aircraft photo's to look at and you get good views on the pilots while sitting in the cockpit with lots of 'em. On your example it is easy to see as well. The pilots flying the model look like they are childern....

The model i have the biggest problem with regarding this topic is the T-33. Inibuilds should take much better care of those poor guys and give them a proper daily meal to eat ! (or maybe the're childern too, then we should report them, shouldn't we..;-)

In ending, no matter what, i do think we're just a couple voices crying in the wilderness, Meridia, maybe along with a few colleagues. I think most flightsimmers don't care much about pilot figures. In any case they don't see the problem, they are probabely likewise too much at awe with the aircaft too.

Haha, thank you for this brilliant reflection—you really made me smile (and think)!
You nailed quite a few points, especially the Freudian one… who knows, maybe deep down the devs see themselves as small compared to their flying masterpieces!
And yes, the T-33… those poor pilots look like they’ve just escaped from a military boarding school for kids. Time for an upgraded meal plan and a proper helmet size!
In the end, maybe we really are just a handful of people who notice (and care about) these things… but as you said, details matter. And in a sim where every wing rivet gets love and attention, it’d be great to have a pilot who doesn’t look like he needs a booster seat.

Thanks again for your post—funny, insightful, and surprisingly… therapeutic!

 

[merida72]

This is a matter of 1:1 scale ratio. IF the aircraft and the environment are truly drawn 1:1, there should be no reason pilots and/or ground crews cannot.

On average, most males range between 5'-8" and 6'-1" meaning a good average of 5'-10" or 5'-11".

This should be a standard for all modelers.

Chances are the pilot was drawn to one standard and the aircraft a different standard, whether metric or imperial. Not using enough decimal places for conversion would result in larger or smaller outcomes.

As an engineer doing my design work in 3D I do everything 1:1, my human model stands at 5'-11". He's never short or tall.

You're absolutely right—this really comes down to consistency in scale.
If the aircraft is modeled 1:1, so should the pilot be. Simple, right? And yet… here we are, still talking about pilots who look like they borrowed their dad’s helmet!
Mixing metric and imperial units—or just rounding off too early during conversions—is probably one of the main culprits. It’s amazing how a couple of missing decimals can turn a grown pilot into a middle school cadet!
Your engineering approach makes perfect sense: 1:1 all the way. Maybe every dev team should have a “standard human mannequin” set to 5’11” on standby. If he doesn’t fit in the cockpit, you’ve got a problem!

Thanks for your input

 

[merida72]

Actually, there's only three scenarios I can think of, as a dev:

#1 The character is at a wrong scale but readily rigged, what makes it difficult to rescale it without mixing up the bone structure and animations.

#2 the devs are struggling with rigging within the narrow cockpit space so they decide to scale it down to get more room/tolerances for animations.

#3 The character isn't rigged/animated at all and the dev doesn't know how to properly align an organic mesh with the aircraft's controll surfaces.

Make your pick.

Ah, so the “tiny pilot curse” actually has some solid technical explanations!
All the scenarios you mentioned make sense… though I have to admit, #2 made me chuckle: “Doesn’t fit in the cockpit? Just shrink him a bit and problem solved!”.
Jokes aside, thanks for sharing your developer perspective. It really helps to understand that behind some of these decisions (or compromises), there’s often more complexity than we as users realize.

 

[merida72]

I believe it's the pose of the figure itself which is the problem:
Feet can stick through the cockpit floor and out of the fuselage, heads can stick through the cockpit roof, elbows out of the fuselage sides...
I bought a couple of add-on male and female pilots and co-pilots in various uniforms/casual wear for MSFS2020, they were the same scale as the default figures but most of them stuck out of most of my planes in the above ways and I had to stop using them.
An off-the-shelf 3D model of a person seated is likely to be a person seated as though on a dining chair, for example, with their feet flat on the floor whereas a person driving or flying will have their feet forward, on the pedals.

Still, it’s a detail that, if addressed properly, could really boost realism. Hopefully, someone will pay more attention to it in the future!