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J. Lucarny P-51

D

DauntlessDriver546

Guest
His P-51C is killer! But there aren't any Pacific skins for her...

Were there P-51Cs in the Pacific Theater? I could have sworn there were some... :help:

IF that is true, are there any Pacific skin sets for her?
 
I have seen pics of P-51's in the Pacific however to the best of my knowledge they were aircraft transferred from the ETO after VE Day. Not sure about specific skins for the Pacific though.
 
P-51's were active in China, Burma, Indonesia and the Philippines as early as December 1944 and January 1945 - a good four to five months before VE. Some better known units were the 82nd, 110th, 118th Tactical Reconnaissance Squadrons, 14th Army Air Force, 1944-1945. They all transitioned from the P-40 to the Mustang around in 01/45, flying Charlies and Deltas. Even though they were primarily trained for recce work, they raised a lot of hell in bomber escorts, airfield strikes and fighter sweeps around active Jap bases in Indochina and the Philippines.

Snooks_0071.jpg


But i'm not familiar with any PTO paints for Wozza's model.
 
The P-51 first appeared in Asia in late September 1943 with the arrival in India of the 311th Fighter Group. The unit was equipped with a mix of A-36's and P-51A's. It's first real test came in November '43 when the unit was moved to Bengal to escort B-24's on a series of raids to Rangoon in Burma. Things went badly for the Unit, it losing two on the 25th, four on the 27th (including the commander of the 311th, Colonel Melton), three on the 30th and five on the 3rd December - all to Zero's of Air Group 331.

The veteren 23rd Fighter Group was the next to receive P-51A's early November '43, and flew it's first P-51 mission to Formosa on 23 November. It started converting to the P-51B from 3 June '44 onwards. It's first mission with the 'B' was on 26 June.

The 1st Air Commando Group arrived in India in mid December equipped also with the P-51A. It commenced ops in early January '44, with primary emphasis on bombing and strafing missions. It played a key role supporting Wingate's incursion into Burma in March 1944. It was the first unit in the CBI to receive the 'B' model, receiving 5 in April '44. In May '44 the Unit converted to P-47D Thunderbolt's.

The P-51C made it's appearence in the CBI on 11 September, being first allocated to the 75th FS, 23rd FG.

Other units that flew the P-51 in the CBI and the Pacific were the 8th Reconnaissance Group and the 71st Tactical Reconnaissance Group.

It was late in 1944 before the Mustang made it's first appearance in the Pacific. First to arrive was the 3rd Air Commando in late November '44, moving to Leyte, Philippines on 7 January 1945.

The 15th FG (equipped with P-51D's) arrived in theatre on March 6, 1945 landing on Iwo Jima, even though the island was not as yet classed as secure. CAP's started immediately and , on March 11, the Group began flying missions against airfields against the islands of Chichi Jima and Haha Jima.

The 21st Fighter Group joined the 15th on Iwo Jima on 23rd March. The first VLR mission flown by P-51's on Iwo occurred in April 7 1945. A total of 108 P-51's from both groups participated in the mission against the Nakajima aircraft factory at Tokyo. Seventeen fighters aborted for various reasons and one was lost the EA, in return the P-51's claimedtwenty one aircraft shot down.

The 506th Fighter Group joined the others at Iwo Jima in April 1945, flying it's first mission against the Bonins on 3 May.

Other units to operate in the Pacific were the 35th Fighter Group, receiving P-51's whilst based on Luzon in the Philippines in March 1945. It moved to Okinawa in June. And the 348th Fighter Group, which converted from P-47's to P-51's whilst on Luzon in March 1945. It moved to the Ie Shima in the Ryukyus in July.
 
Thanks Pips...that info could be be useful for a researching future late-war campaigns. Looking backwards to the start of addon US missions and camps for CFS2-Pacific/CBI, the Mustang is the only premier USAAC fighter not featured yet in anything. Speaking of USAAC only, i have camps and missions featuring the P-36, P-39, P-38, P-40 and P-47 (FDG2_P-47D-23 / 348th Fighter Group *private modification*), but i have yet to see an addon P-51 camp or mission pack.

Some years ago i started a little private project to "re-write" Jagdflieger's 'Defense of Japan' campaign and Ian Fletcher's 'Home Defense' campaign' addons (both Japanese-side), converting the player to 'US' flying the P-51D in escort and VLR missions from Iwo and Okinawa. I got side-tracked with a loooong run of converting and modding aircraft and never finished these campaigns. It would be an interesting revisitation at some point in the not-so-distant future. This thread is a good restart...

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Sorry DD, in post #3 i said i'm not aware of any Wozza 51/PTO repaints. I meant to say Lucarny P-51 PTO repaints.
 
according to my sources...
The first operational Mustangs in the Pacific theater were F-6D's assigned, in late 44, to the 82nd Tac R squadron of the 71st Reconnaissance Group, stationed at San Jose Field in the Philippines. Combat was encountered in January 1945. There after 'D' models were assigned to various FG's So to answer the main question, no 'C' models were operational in the PTO.
:kilroy:
 
Quote: "There after 'D' models were assigned to various FG's So to answer the main question, no 'C' models were operational in the PTO."

Hmmm...oh well, guess i can disregard these then. :whistle:


P51CMustangDrawing.jpg
This is a drawing of a 118th TRS P-51C Mustang piloted by Capt. Ray Crowell, Chengkung, early 1945. I show so you get a sense for the Black Lightning nose art. Courtesy of Nick King. Presented by CBI History.​

P51CSuichuan.jpg
118th TRS P-51C, Suichuan, China, January 1945. Photo contributed by Boub Bourlier and presented by ArmyAirForces.com

P51sLaohwangping.jpg
118th TRS P-51s on the flightline at Laohwangping, China, June 1945. Photo contributed by Bob Bourlier and presented by ArmyAirForces.com. There is fantastic photography at this site of the 118th TRS from training in the US to the war in the CBI.
 
Smashing Time said:
I thought China was the CBI theater?
Click to expand...

Before the retaking of Manila, Allied operations in Korea, Burma, India, China, Thailand, Formosa, Indonesia and the Philippines were all considered one campaign theater, separate from the South Pacific and Micronesia. And that's how the Japanese fought the war too. But this didn't prevent Allied command from ordering P51 and P-38 VLR missions from China into Indonesia and the Philippines long before Singapore and Manila were retaken. After securing Indonesia and the Philippines, Allied South Pacific operations naturally merged into the CBI as the island-hopping fight moved closer to mainland Japan. At that point the Allied air bases in eastern Asia and Indochina served as staging for strikes and sweeps on Formosa and the Ryukyu Islands, as well as the China Sea and Sea of Japan. Fighter squads from these bases also escorted B-29's to Japan from China. So throughout 1945 we can clearly see the PTO and CBITO overlapping into one larger, regional campaign rather than two separates, with Asia Air supporting Pacific campaigning and Pacific Air supporting Asian ground/air mop-ups and tying up the transfer of Japanese resources from Indonesia-Pacific holdings to support their failing continental Asian campaign.
 
I guess you could argue it both ways. But for the most part war books break out the CBI from the PTO in general operations till the end of hostilities. If you include the Philippines as a CBI/PTO then the rest of the Pacific is still a stand alone PTO. The P-51 book I referenced has the 82nd Tac R squadron as a PTO operation. ... I love to argue. :costumes:
 
The reality is that where the books draw the theater lines doesn't matter at all to us today, especially to the men who fought on both sides from Asia to Australia, Malaya to Midway. To them it was all one BIG, overextended mess that would see them posted in Sumatra or India one day and next week in New Guinea or French Polynesia. They didn't have the luxury of "arguing" theater lines - just kill or be killed anywhere in the hemisphere. As the offspring of their generation, we can split hairs over what historians say, but the general chronological flow and movement of men, hardware and materials over the conflict are undeniable from start to finish and the natural overlapping is painfully obvious.

There was no one questioning whether a P-51C in China should be allowed to "cross over" and fly a mission over Leyte during those days...
 
I don't want to belabor this topic, but just to illustrate the overlapping PTO-CBITO "backscratching" point made earlier, here's a background outline from just one notable PTO squadron, the 348th FG (Neel Kirby's unit). Note the Philippines and Ie Shima postings. These coincided with the dating of their action reports of the China defensive/offensives. They skipped working in P-39's and P-40's and flew P-47 razorbacks from their PTO debut in '43 until getting P-51's for the Philippines and Ie Shima. This shows that while stationed at technically PTO locations, they flew support missions within the technical CBI area of operations.

Stations Flown From:

Port Moresby, New Guinea (June '43 - Dec '43)

Finschhafen, New Guinea (Dec '43 - March '44)

Saidor, New guinea (March '44 - May '44)

Wakde (May '44 - Aug'44)

Noemfoor (ug '44 - Nov '44)

Leyte (Nov '44 - Feb '45)

San Marcelino, Luzon (Feb '45 - May '45)

Floridablanca, Luzon (may '45 - July '45)

Ie Shima (July - end WWII)


Campaigns Flown in:

Air Offensive, Japan

China Defensive

New Guinea

Bismarck Archipelago

Western Pacific (waters off southeast Asia)

Leyte

Luzon

China Offensive

This isn't intended to say they flew 'Charlie' Mustangs instead 'Delta's', but it indicates a standard of overlapping theater units and operations in the region to get the job done. If this one unit did so, how unusual would it have been for the 118th TRS P-51C's or any others from China bases to support "PTO" offensives?
 
bearcat241 said:
P-51's were active in China, Burma, Indonesia and the Philippines as early as December 1944 and January 1945 - a good four to five months before VE. QUOTE]

All I could speak of was the pictures that I was shown in an old photo album of some aircraft transferred to the PTO from the ETO. This was per my second cousin who flew P-51b's and P-51c's in both Europe AND the Pacific.
Click to expand...
 
It's worthwhile to bear in mind that the 'theatre borders' artifically created by the American Joint Chiefs was with the aim of streamlining and improving command, control and logistics within zones of influence, as a well as allocating responsibility and accountability to theatre commanders.

It was in no way meant to restrict mission cross boarder incursions if the theatre commander considered such action was worthwhile. Which with the advent of the P-51 was fairly commonplace in and around the Philippines, Hong Kong, Formosa, Singapore, Burma and the China coastline.
 
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