PirateBay founders jailed

[Z-PurpleBubble]

wanna cut down on piracy?? put a limit on what search engines are allowed to actually search for, that alone would cut out a lot i reckon

And cut down on freedom of information? Do you want to put an end to democracy as well???

JEEZ!!

 

[IanP]

It's up to us, the internet users to push our representatives to have the laws updated, so all of us know what is legal and what is not.

People know full well - they just don't care.

The critical thing is that right now, copyright law is seen as protecting big business, who already stand accused in the public eye of ripping people off with cartels and grossly overpriced products producing massive profits for next to no outlay. That may or may not be reality, but that is public perception.

On the other hand, the very people copyright is supposed to protect - the small FS developers, individual photographers, painters, musicians and the like - can do nothing to protect themselves against the illegal reproduction of the product they sell. That balance needs to be redressed, but also the consumer has to be protected from the likes of the RIAA, who would only be too happy to force you to pay multiple times to get the same piece of music on MP3, AAC and CD.

I've heard a heck of a lot of discussion between people about this subject (take a look at the BBC Have Your Say about the Pirate Bay case - there are very few people who want to run cheering through the streets!) and the almost unanimous feeling is that this is a victory for big business to help big business and solely for the benefit of big business. That's not what this is supposed to be about.

 

[Bjoern]

This is only one head of the hydra. If you want to kill it, kill its heart - the internet.

The trial does nothing but to create martyrs and satisfy some huge corporations' need for attention and defense of their business practices. It also gives the media a great story to drool over. Also, it's a barrel of powder.
If this trial ends with TPB being freed of all charges, it might be the spark for a revolution in the media and internet world.

And I damn well think it's time for one.

 

[Lawman]

And cut down on freedom of information? Do you want to put an end to democracy as well???

JEEZ!!

There isn't and there has never been an absolute right of free speech or freedom of information. While the entertainment industry has played its cards stupidly, they're 100 gazillion percent right when they say that as copyright holders they have the right to determine how their intellectual property gets used. In Western society, the idea is you should get to reap the benefits of your efforts.

 

[TeaSea]

Lawman is correct. There is no such absolute as "Freedom of Speech". You pay for your speech one way or another.

Not to offend, but frankly it's a bit disengenous to be concerned about "Freedom of Speech" as an issue when you're stealing software. The much abused "Freedom of Speech" argument is being applied to everything from downloading music to pedophelia...frankly it's getting a little old. Sort of like comparing everyone you disagree with to Nazi's.


I would add that it appears that on this thread everyone seems to be breaking down in to these groups regarding this issue (even though we all seem to agree that software piracy is bad):

1 - There's the "people will keep on doing these bad things anyway so why bother prosecuting" cabal.

2- Then there's the "Let us take all the software pirates, hang them up by their scrotums on rusty nails and spit on their mothers" posse.

3 - The "none of the laws of any country younger than 2 years can possibly work to address this new digitial age" convent.

4 - Of course theres the "It's all about evil corporate greed and opprresion of the common man" consortium. They seem to show up on every thread eventually.

and finally my group....

5 - The "those pirate dudes in Sweden are probably the ugliest and doofiest MoFo's with the most pathetic facial hair I've every seen in my life" fan club.:woot:

 

[6297J]

6 - The ''Yes, I agree, it's terrible, I think they should be - OMG they've got My Name is Earl series 4!!'', brigade.

 

[vstudios]

he looks like a rug rat

 

[Mithrin]

Four people. I don't know anyone in my close neighbourhood who hasn't ever downloaded music or something off the internet. Good move in jailing these martyrs. Definitely the source of the problem....sigh.

It starts with the internet providers and lots of their info on their customers which is still considered 'sacred' in too many countries. Government in the form of an I.T. police department needs to be able to access that stuff, just as well as they are allowed to walk around the real world and keep a close eye on things...

Cool, they are martyrs now. You know what happened to real world pirates when some of their comrades got their heads chopped off at the block? They fought even more vicous to stay out of the hands of their opponents and used their cunning and creative mind to get what they wanted...you do the math.

Sorry guys but I had to get that out of my system. Nothing personal against anyone or anyone's opinion but just my personal opinion.

 

[Lionheart]

I am just greatful that those pirates have been shut down.

Bottom line.



A thief is a thief. That was like 'organized crime' on a world scale in the internet world. Now they are gone.


Good...!



Bill

 

[IanP]

Nice to see that even here, with supposedly rational adults involved, it comes down to petty personal insults. How mature.

Lawman is indeed correct that there can never be unfettered freedom of speech - there are hundreds of laws in every country that limit it (defamation and libel to list but two whole areas of law). The question with limiting what search engines can and cannot display is who makes the decisions? What's legal in Holland is illegal in the USA. What's legal in the USA is illegal in much of the Arab world. So who decides? Capitol Hill? Westminster? Beijing? Redmond, WA?

As to my argument before, it is not "all" about big business, but as has already been mentioned numerous times on this thread - I personally know people whose products are on TPB. How much of the payments TPB will probably never make was ever earmarked for them, compared to how much will go to the megaliths of the entertainment industry? Yes, they potentially lost far more, but the loss of a thousand sales to them affects them vastly less than one sale to a low volume sales one man band. Copyright law is supposed to protect both of those, yet right now it doesn't.

Parts of copyright law need to become criminal, rather than civil. It needs to become a lot less expensive to bring a breach of copyright case. Yet at the same time, you can't forget that there are people out there with control over something that people want who would happily say "You have to pay me full price every time you look at it, let alone play it". The law also has to protect the general public from that. It's a balancing act, yes, but right now it's too skewed in favour of those breaking the law, let alone against those who can't afford to bring cases against them.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/17/pirate_verdict_next_move/page2.html

Edit: Sorry Bill, but they're not gone. Jailing and fining a handful of individuals won't change a thing. Also, no matter how much people want it to be, Breach of Copyright is NOT THEFT. The two are very different things for good reason. You can still sell software, even after it is illegally uploaded. If it had been stolen from you, you couldn't. It's that simple and, while the law is wrong and penalties should be far more appropriate than they currently are, the definitions are still correct.

 

[Henry]

copyright laws are at best vauge
for the common man
as Ian stated earlier, take a photographer
for an example he takes a picture, you like it
you order a print a small one, as its cheaper
you then take it to a photo lab and tell them you need a copy say an 8x10, now a smart person would tell them sorry
but i cannot copy this it has a copyright
then the customer states well i paid for it its mine
you own the photograph but not the image
some people will copy it
what can a small photographer do
not a lot!
in the same token who are the real pirates
the site that has a way of hosting whatever
or the people who upload and download
kind of like the pawn shop
who is the larger villain
the pawn shop or the seller, both are wrong
but the seller or uploader are the worst
will it ever stop
i dont believe so unless things change big time
and i do not see that happening
just an observation
H

 

[Z-PurpleBubble]

I honestly think that the people from TPB are more of a sting into the sides of big businesses, than that of the good people here.

The many designers that sometimes gather here are more damaged by small players (compared to TPB) such as ***** of Silence and El Hangar.

And Ian is so right in saying that legally speaking, a copyright infringement is not theft but just a copyright infringement. "You can still sell software, even after it is illegally uploaded. If it had been stolen from you, you couldn't".

And indeed again as Ian hints: we should not revert to cheap name calling or insults, just because TPB is high profile. In the short time that I've been here, I believe that this place has a helpfull and friendly crowd.

PB

 

[Alexraptor]

I can see there is a lot of hostility towards torrents... it is unfortunate that they have gotten such bad rep.
Torrents are good, i welcome torrents and support them.... but i condemn piracy, simple truth is that The Pirate Bay is a torrent tracker just like any othe, except that since they are swedish they have caught the attention of the swedish legal system, with pressure of course from the corporate giants such as MGM and Universal ect.

Do a search for say "Flight Simulator X torrent" on google, sure the Pirate Bay comes up there among the first results, but its neither the first or only torrent.
Now do a search for "Star Wreck torrent" and again of course you will find links to many other torrent sites with the torrent.
BUT! note the important difference, FSX torrents are obviously illegal and pirated... but "Star Wreck" is a finnish star trek fan film distributed for "free" and is perfectly legal to download via torrent.

And therein lies the problem, torrents are not evil and only for pirates, however they are a very efficient and safe way of sharing files(avoiding being hacked ect) not to mention very cost friendly since you dont have to host the files on a large server. The trackers also work as a search engine finding specific torrents and even some less well-known musicians have released their work as torrents.
The entire court case is a joke in my opinion as it has already been established that The Pirate Bay does not actually host any copyright protected material on their servers, hence they are not actually Pirates or guilty of copyright infringement.
This isnt about right and wrong, or laws... this is about new technology and the internet evolving and the goverments and companies ect desperately trying to cope with something that they do not fully understand.

Now just to make this clear once more... i do not condone piracy, nor do i engage it that despicable activity. And i am pleased to say i have bought my payware addons for FSX and they were worth every penny.
And more than anything i sympathise greatly with the addon makers who loose money on pirated versions of addons leaking out on torrents, rapidshare and ftp's.

 

[BASys]

Hi Folks

Your personal freedoms have just been further eroded.

This case-law precedent
effectively allows anyone with enough financial clout
to override commonsense, (in Sweden only so far).



Not in any way defending their behaviour,
only providing objective comment.

Remember -
The Pirate Bay themselves, are not the pirates.

They host no content.
They only provide a contact mechanism.

That's for any user
who wishes to redistribute content,
whether cosidered legal or otherwise.

No matter what their chosen brand-name,
or bravado based philosophy posted statements might infer.



They're just using a perfectly legal mechanism,
to allow their customers to share files.



WRT case-law -
Providers of a mechanism
are now liable for its content.

i.e.
Woolies, Walmart, or whoever,
as providers/distibutors of knives
could now be held liable as accessories to murder, (in Sweden only ATM),
because they sold the knife.

On a more FS related note.
This equates to a positive outcome for FS users -
Distributors of FS products
can no longer use disclaimers to limit their liability
for any effect of their product on your FSX's FPS.



Pirate Bay's key downfall, (from a legal perspective),
being that they refused to remove contested content.

Bottom-line
The seeders of pirated content are making no profit.
AND
There's not been any tie-up whatsoever,
that confirms the Pirate Bay team have ever seeded.



Google beware,
You're next !

Unlike Pirate Bay
Google actually hosts content,
through their cached mechanism, (YMMV).



On a personal note
I'm now boycotting all Swedish products,
with the intent of destabilising the Swedish economy.

To that end -
I've just cancelled my orders for -
- 3 x JAS39 Grippen fighters
- 8 x Bofors 57 MK3 guns
- 4 x Visby corvettes, (2 x MK3 Bofors per vessel)
- 20 x Scania trucks
- New Volvo XC60 estate
Also -
- Binned my Ericsson phone
- Subscription to Swedish porn mags.
Hoping you'll all take a similar approach. :ernae:


Disclaimer -
All the above may be utter rubish, (ATM),
but if I win the lottery tomorrow night,
I'll force the issue in court.



Paris -
Coz from experience,
she knows better !



ATB
Paul

 

[Bjoern]

I am just greatful that those pirates have been shut down.

Not gonna happen until the trial is over.

Nice to see that even here, with supposedly rational adults involved, it comes down to petty personal insults. How mature.

Yep, truly sad. But it nicely demonstrates the default black/white painting of this kind of subject.

 

[TeaSea]

Nice to see that even here, with supposedly rational adults involved, it comes down to petty personal insults. How mature.

Ian, if that's for me...no insult intended.

But you gotta admit...these guys look doofy.

(probably junior Nazi's)

 

[BASys]

But you gotta admit...
these guys look doofy.

You seen Bill Gates's early pics ?

 

[Bjoern]

But you gotta admit...these guys look doofy.

(probably junior Nazi's)

Sorry, but...

 

[kilo delta]

On a personal note
I'm now boycotting all Swedish products,
with the intent of destabilising the Swedish economy.

To that end -
I've just cancelled my orders for -
- 3 x JAS39 Grippen fighters
- 8 x Bofors 57 MK3 guns
- 4 x Visby corvettes, (2 x MK3 Bofors per vessel)
- 20 x Scania trucks
- New Volvo XC60 estate
Also -
- Binned my Ericsson phone
- Subscription to Swedish porn mags.
Hoping you'll all take a similar approach. :ernae:


ATB
Paul

I'll gladly take any old mags ,Paul :friday:

 

[IanP]

They're geeks. They're the same the world over. There are probably a few clones reading this very comment. However, that's utterly immaterial.

I'm afraid the Daily Mail style arm waving about how this will destroy the planet and/or solve everything in one fell swoop are massively wide of the mark. In reality, no-one will even notice this other than those directly involved after more than a few days and another news cycle.

The people you really need to have in the dock are the uploaders. Without them, there's no sites, no downloaders, nothing to download. Yet Mithrin's suggestion that ISPs should be forced to hand over information is never going to work either.

World of Warcraft uses peer-to-peer distribution to apply patches. So do many other games and applications. The Linux brigade would be totally stuffed if you stopped them using P2P or torrents, but if you start telling ISPs to tell the Police every time someone uses a P2P application or uploads a torrent, they're just going to grab everything in the same dragnet, legal or otherwise. Plus if you want to see what people think about having someone look at everything they do on the internet, do some research into Phorm/BT Webwise. People are rather upset about that, including me. What legal activities I carry out are my own personal business, thank you, and no-one, government or private individual, has any right or reason at all to directly and actively monitor them.

The only place you can kill something like this is at source. You turn off the tap and what that tap supplies withers and dies. But in order to do that, you have to convince people that what they are doing is wrong. The reason I moan about the RIAA/MPAA members' claims because their dumb as pig#%$£ moronic actions are making it next to impossible for people who are really suffering from this stuff to get their point across. The RIAA and MPAA members are still posting healthy multi-million dollar profits every year while crying that this will kill them, the same as VHS and audio cassettes did... I mean, it's not like anyone buys copies of films or music any more is it? We just tape them off the TV or radio... right? Er, yeah. Sorry. Back to this reality.

"One download = one sale lost" is hogwash to anyone with half a braincell actually thinking rationally. People have a fixed budget (mine for this month is expended already). So if I downloaded a copy of, pluck expensive things out of my head, Corel Photo Studio, AutoCAD or 3DStudioMAX, they haven't lost a sale. I could never afford to buy it anyway! By downloading them, I am not breaking the law anyway - not until I distribute them to someone else.

Change the law to something vaguely relevant that covers software, rather than printing plates, go after the seeders. The majority of serial warez downloaders I have come across in my time don't use 99% of what they have anyway - they just use it to seed other peoples' downloads and get themselves a better "score". They should be easy to detect for anyone who really wanted to try. Problem is, the only people who can afford to try aren't looking for thousands of small artists' files, they're looking for the latest blockbuster or the latest boy-band trash album, which means that they catch the small fry and don't even notice the big fish.

...how many analogies did I use in that post? It really is way past time for bed. Have fun!