• There seems to be an uptick in Political comments in recent months. Those of us who are long time members of the site know that Political and Religious content has been banned for years. Nothing has changed. Please leave all political and religious comments out of the forums.

    If you recently joined the forums you were not presented with this restriction in the terms of service. This was due to a conversion error when we went from vBulletin to Xenforo. We have updated our terms of service to reflect these corrections.

    Please note any post refering to a politician will be considered political even if it is intended to be humor. Our experience is these topics have a way of dividing the forums and causing deep resentment among members. It is a poison to the community. We appreciate compliance with the rules.

    The Staff of SOH

  • Server side Maintenance is done. We still have an update to the forum software to run but that one will have to wait for a better time.

I really suggest ya´ll head to A2A site

realflight said:
Regarding flight models, I guess the FDE guys read from the true numbers, and to simulate an aircrafts flight model without ever flying one is indeed a big task. I hear lots of people say this and that's wrong regarding handling, however - without being so lucky as to flying one is indeed questionable, I guess you too are all reading the true numbers from relative media, is your findings a guestimate, or have you flown the aircraft in question. This is not a rant or jab at anyones ribs, just an observation.
Click to expand...

I didn't mean to disrespect the people who write flight dynamics for us. However good we think we are, however well we handle Accusim, most of us would crash & burn on our first trip in a real Spitfire, F6F, P47, P51, FW190 or whatever. All we can really say is that it does, or doesn't, perform according to what we've read somwhere. A lot of FDs have come pretty close, bearing in mind that no two aircraft from a wartime production line ever flew exactly the same. By the time you add knocks & scrapes, dirt & dust, the condition of the finish, the differences between pilots and even the weather - well, who really knows?
 
PRB said:
Ok, this flight model debate is interesting. A statement was made that combat simmers, in general, are more picky about flight model accuracy than “FS” simmers, who are more interested in “eye candy” and switches that go “click!” when you click on them. If this is really true I would be very surprised. I don’t know if there is any way to verify the accuracy of such a statement. Many simmers fly both combat and civil type sims. I’ve seen some pretty nasty “food fights” in the combat sim forums over FM accuracy, and to make an equally general statement, it’s been my observation that the more accurate the combat sim flight model is, the more irritated the combat simmers get, because you can’t just yank and bank any WW-II fighter around the sky with reckless abandon and not experience accelerated stalls and serious loss of energy.
<o:p></o:p>
Which leads to another question. If FS simmers don’t care as much about flight models as combat simmers, does it follow that FS flight models are less accurate than those of combat sims? There’s no way I will believe that one. I know too many flight model people around here who spend a lot of time getting the flight models of their WW-II FS sim planes right. I’m not quite ready to conclude that they don’t know what they’re doing, as compared to their combat sim FM maker counterparts.
<o:p></o:p>
I have both the RealFlight Hellcat, and now this new F4U Corsair. I can’t tell if the flight model is wrong on either one of them. One who has flown them probably could, but I can’t. I do like both planes, inside and out.
Click to expand...

It was me who made that statement about combat simmers being more picky. If a combat sim aircraft FM is off by a large amount you can be assured there will be complaints. For example if an aircraft in a combat sim is too fast/agile etc you can bet your bottom dollar that someone who flies against it online (or against the AI) will complain. If the same aircraft was too slow or not agile enough then the fans of that aircraft would be doing the complaining. The reason is simple, combat sims are designed to simulate the aircraft in a combat environment. Therefore the performance and agility of the aircraft will be matched against each other in a competitive environment and if they don't match historical accuracy close enough it will be noticed.

The same is not true in FS9/FSX. I will not go into details as to the aircraft but so many warbird addons are very well received simply because they look good. I have bought some absolute turkeys in FSX that looked great but flew like crap and they have been raved about by the FS community.
​
 
Just wanted to say that I installed the big gull-winged bird this afternoon and took her up for a flight.

Model looks good visually and is easy on my machines FPS...very smooth flying out of KBAD. Price was not hard on the ole pocketbook !

Looking forward to some repaints from our talented SOH members! Two thumbs-up on this one.:ernae:
 
ICDP said:
It was me who made that statement about combat simmers being more picky. If a combat sim aircraft FM is off by a large amount you can be assured there will be complaints. For example if an aircraft in a combat sim is too fast/agile etc you can bet your bottom dollar that someone who flies against it online (or against the AI) will complain. If the same aircraft was too slow or not agile enough then the fans of that aircraft would be doing the complaining. The reason is simple, combat sims are designed to simulate the aircraft in a combat environment. Therefore the performance and agility of the aircraft will be matched against each other in a competitive environment and if they don't match historical accuracy close enough it will be noticed.​





The same is not true in FS9/FSX. I will not go into details as to the aircraft but so many warbird addons are very well received simply because they look good. I have bought some absolute turkeys in FSX that looked great but flew like crap and they have been raved about by the FS community.​
Click to expand...

I’ve no doubt the complaints are louder from the combat sim community, when it comes to “inaccurate FMs”. I've seen them! I just wonder how informed those complaints really are (dang, I’m in deep trouble now, I just know it!) Complaints in the civilian FS sim community are likely to be less about the “at the edge of the flight envelope” performance characteristics, and more about the usual FS simmer stuff, i.e., clickable buttons, external views, and performance in the landing pattern, etc. I guess my bottom line question is this: are flight models for WW-II planes in FS civilian sims more or less accurate than their counterparts in the combat sim world? And my point is that there is probably no “broad brush” answer. As always, it depends on the individual model.
 
PRB said:
And my point is that there is probably no “broad brush” answer. As always, it depends on the individual model.
Click to expand...
I think you just hit the nail on the head! There are some good aircraft out there and some real lemons.
 
Lewis-A2A said:
....The good news is Scott already has a date set with a corsair to get the needed hands on time for recordings etc which will give us the needed materials to produce an accu-sim pack to bring the Corsair up to and hopefully far beyond your expectations :engel016:,...
Click to expand...

That would be awesome. :applause:

BTW my comment about the sounds not matching the 30" power setting was directed at the sound set rather than the flight model, the later of which is quite good. As soon as I was airborn I knew this had an A2A produced flight model just by how it feels, which is smooth and balanced. A2A flight models are my personal favorite along with those by Rob Young of RealAir.
 
MS FS series does not have a good SDK describing an .air file which is responsible for the flight model along with an aircraft.cfg file. Although I believe that the FS offers a lot for the FM builder, it also require lots of patience and knowledge "outside of the box". I have built two flight models (RWD-8 and RWD-14) and it was fairy easy with Sparks' Air Wrench software. However achieving a good spin characteristics is very, very difficult and because I am not flight engineer I was not able to mess with the airfoil data. My planes can be flown "by the numbers", but for me this is flying for getting few screenies and to watch the countryside.

I fly FS aircrafts because of the advanced systems which some of them have (Accusim planes and tubeliners) and for the sim's graphics of course. If I want to have a joy from pure flying, I prefer combat sim (not the MS CFS btw) which allows me to compete against other players in the multiplayer mode. So I agree with IDCP on this point. I am also not so demanding about the 3D detail. I prefer less detailed, but well textured (both quality and uv mapping) plane.
Anyways, FS series is so huge and offers so many possibilities that almost everyone can find some interesting aspect for himself.

Lucas
 
Decent price for an outstanding model..Was a good purchase (from simmarket ) .Thank you MIlVIZ !
 
krazycolin said:
Just to be clear... you shouldn't be thanking us. Thank A2A and their team for outstanding efforts putting our model into the air...

KC
Click to expand...


Sure,sry, but what impressed me the most as oustanding ,was the modelling.
I followed the development of this project on your website that,s why I thanked you first..If you still refering to as " your model " let me thank you again for it.! :applause:
 
Yes the orginal source went through multiple changes and optimisation from our own famous ROB to add the final polish. This was a real team effort from both sides and a great launch craft for our new line of good solid aircraft at an affordable price.
 
downloading it now!:applause:
as far as fd's go there are a few people out there
who do great Fd's for warbirds with information
available.
anyway thanks guys
ill check it out
H
 
Is there any news on a paint kit being released for this yet? I know they aren't technically accurate models to use but I'm keen to get cracking on some FAA repaints.
 
PRB said:
I’ve no doubt the complaints are louder from the combat sim community, when it comes to “inaccurate FMs”. I've seen them! I just wonder how informed those complaints really are (dang, I’m in deep trouble now, I just know it!) Complaints in the civilian FS sim community are likely to be less about the “at the edge of the flight envelope” performance characteristics, and more about the usual FS simmer stuff, i.e., clickable buttons, external views, and performance in the landing pattern, etc. I guess my bottom line question is this: are flight models for WW-II planes in FS civilian sims more or less accurate than their counterparts in the combat sim world? And my point is that there is probably no “broad brush” answer. As always, it depends on the individual model.
Click to expand...

Well said :applause::applause::applause:
 
And on the individual user as well... some of whom know what they are doing and others who don't (but usually assume that they do).

Only a real pilot of the particular plane will be able to truly assess the FM of any FS or CFS plane's attributes and or, lack thereof.

KC
 
krazycolin said:
And on the individual user as well... some of whom know what they are doing and others who don't (but usually assume that they do).

Only a real pilot of the particular plane will be able to truly assess the FM of any FS or CFS plane's attributes and or, lack thereof.

KC
Click to expand...


A PPL doesn't necessarly make you an expert on flight dynamics.
A driving license doesn't make you an expert on cars either.
The most scientific approach on the matter comes from AvHistory in my opinion.
They calculate the airframe through industry/military standard math models which are pretty good these days below Mach and what effectively excludes opinion and legend flight modelling.
 
Mathias said:
A PPL doesn't necessarly make you an expert on flight dynamics.
A driving license doesn't make you an expert on cars either.
The most scientific approach on the matter comes from AvHistory in my opinion.
They calculate the airframe through industry/military standard math models which are pretty good these days below Mach and what effectively excludes opinion and legend flight modelling.
Click to expand...

It may not make you an expert, but it will certainly tell you how it flies/drives. and that's a whole heck of a lot better than someone who's never even driven tell me (us, you and them) that it flies well or badly.

I will agree with the last part of the statement but only partially. It's all very nice to concentrate on the science of how things will/should/do fly but, in the end, we all make choices about how we feel it should fly.

As an example, we have another FDE file for the Corsair if anyone should want it and it may well be harder to fly or not. This one was done by Fliger747. If anyone wants it, let me know and I will send it to them.
 
krazycolin said:
I will agree with the last part of the statement but only partially. It's all very nice to concentrate on the science of how things will/should/do fly but, in the end, we all make choices about how we feel it should fly.
Click to expand...

...what brings you back to the opinion and legend flight modelling.
 
krazycolin said:
As an example, we have another FDE file for the Corsair if anyone should want it and it may well be harder to fly or not. This one was done by Fliger747. If anyone wants it, let me know and I will send it to them.
Click to expand...
now he is one person who does do a great job
i have worked with him many times
it may be harder to fly, he is a pilot
i am not so do i need things as real as they get
personally no, i hate crashing all the time
but gentlemen this thread is not about fd's
and who or what are the best.
i see no one has really stated anything about
the flight dynamics of this bird
Its a good plane
i enjoy it and have fun with it
Cheers
H
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top