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A short editorial about flight sim developers (thoughts and contribution please)

CodyValkyrie said:
Gajit, don't mistake my remarks as a case to bend to the will of developers. I'm only stating that yes, comments DO make a difference in sales.
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I wont - and I apprechiate what you say and will continue to praise the 95% of great products as much as I can in hope that in some small way I can encourage sales.
 
But I still have to dig...

Airfix, Revell, Tamiya, Triang Hornby, Märklin... all great "Toy makers" with passionate hobbyists in their ranks of customers and staff. In fact there's probably more anoraks in the model railway scene...

...but all have a professional attitude to their product. I don't want us to create a regulatory body as such. I want to see better standards. There is a ifference. Much less than that between Huey Cobra and Huey Iroquois. But a difference nevertheless.

You say the poor devs will learn the hard way by losing sales. BUT they will still sell too many low quality products before the market catches on. We'll still have spent money on products which aren't up to what we have every right to expect. There are a lot of freeware devs who make good and better (than) payware. Great. I love the Piglets and Pipers...

The worst products come from the so-called commercial companies - and for them it IS work. They are in it for money. They pay for registration as a GmbH or a Ltd. or an SA...

I don't expect "hobby" standards from them. I demand quality as a paying customer.

Oh, yes... many of their developers are amateur (freelance), but that does not relieve the "Limited Company" of any obligation to publish products of a lousy standard with silly mapping errors that even the blind can see.

Heel Guys. You spend two years of love on a model as a freelance and then cock it up with an error that can be fixed in minutes - and then blame everyone else but yourself and maybe the ten minutes with the SDK that even a numty like me can read? And you wonder where I am coming from? I know of several planes that have even been in Beta longer than that. And they still have issues (I won't say bugs, but things that FSX can't apparently support. Fair do's.)

Macromedia paid staff told me that Flash couldn't produce gradient transparency masks that follow the mouse - it took me three weeks with the handbook to produce exactly that effect ten years ago - I am not and never will or want to be a programmer, but I know that if you can think it you can programme it. I dread to think if I could ever find the time and money to learn 3DS Max... but you are lucky. yet.

The Nemeth brothers do a darn sight better job than some of the real commercials. Even Mike "CYUL" does better than one or two (nay, most) of the Limiteds...

But if you are a registered tax paying company with staff, an office, production premises... well you can do better. No MUST do better. Not just for yourselves, but also as an obligation to your free-lancers too.

I hear the other side. I tend to agree with the other side, but I still see mistakes being made where none should be happening. So whilst I hear the moans and sighs of "That bl**dy eejit Brisland", I do know we would all benefit from a more professional approach from certain quarters. Good quality won't cost any more. What you save on the recalls, you pay the the Q people. But it WILL reduce bad feeling amongst the paying clientele. And HAPPY customers buy more.

Oh - dispute with me by all means, but please be gentle with the four letter PMs. :) :kilroy:

Active debate, not slanging. I take an unpopular stand, but someone has to...
 
Chris, your call for higher standards and a more professional approach does not fall on deaf ears.
The negative blowback you may experience is due to a basic assumption by many, that the path to such goals is yet another regulatory body or set of actions by self appointed "experts".
At the end of the day, this discussion, like it predecessors will die a slow death and those who have integrity will continue to prosper while those who do not will fall by the wayside.
This applies to developers and customers alike. :mixedsmi:
 
CBris said:
I take an unpopular stand, but someone has to...
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Ummmm... not necessarily.... I for one just enjoy simming from time to time. Yeah right :bump:

But you still miss the point... Airfix, Tamiya, whoever... they are all BIG companies..

Cor-Po-Ra-Tions ! !

With room to spare for overhead staff and managers.... with customers maybe suing them for 100's of millions if a guy cracks through a chair or trips over a barbecue or other 'dangerous tool' .....

'We', kind Sir, are not. We're one-man bands mostly.... working from our garden sheds, bedrooms and the occasional office in the basement, making some sort of sophisticated toys..... There, I said it !

There's a difference ;-)
 
N400QW said:
At the end of the day, this discussion, like it predecessors will die a slow death and those who have integrity will continue to prosper while those who do not will fall by the wayside.
This applies to developers and customers alike. :mixedsmi:
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That sums it nicely :ernae: - woops Ive just fallln :isadizzy:
 
I'm debating whether or not to post a comment...

However, after last night's escapades, I'm currently not in the mood....
 
It must have been bad - that last night thing - if you need safety in numbers!!
 
Well, I'm being sued by a developer who hasn't paid me yet. How do you think I feel about this industry?

I'm honest and look what it's got me? no money and a bad rep.

grrrrr...

kc
edit: yes... it was VERY bad... and still ongoing though not online...
 
-EDIT-

I think in time, everything gets sorted out.

-FURTHER EDIT-

Let's just keep this forum independant and about our hobby, flight simming.
 
well, its a community that even if you play earlier version's of MSFS, that in time we are aviation hobbiest. this community will lose and gain great people and payware companys. this is also a community that will grow and shrink with the times, but i think when Tig's whent into a speach about it. He thought about what he was saying and made true comments thaty reflect on the FS community.
 
The "community" is not well served by those with an agenda be they consumer, developer, or public forum.

If some of the things I've heard thru the grapevine are true then many will kiss this and other forums a not so fond goodbye.

Like it or not, commercial developers do provide a benefit to users. Unfair, underhanded, or illegal practices have led to the demise or extreme decline of more than one "cottage industry".

Let's hope that this "community" wakes up to the fact that illicit attacks on providers reduces the "fun factor" to the extent they may just unhang the shingle and move on to greener pastures.:isadizzy:
 
i'm so glad i only make freeware, no warranties , no stress , no money , no worries...

it diffuses the whole topic of this thread - i make stuff - i give stuff away - like it ,keep it - hate it ,delete it

simple is good - phew :wiggle:
 
I dont think to compare us to Airfix, Tamiya and the like is proper. The main reason is they sell to thousands of people if not millions. I see there kits on store shelfs all the time. On the other hand, we have (if we are lucky) hundreds of customers, and they all visit the same forums. If someone bashes a Tamiya model for missing a panel line, it may effect .001% of there customer base. If someone bashes our models for the same, it effects 100% of our customer base. As anyone who has ever put together a model can attest, even a company with great resources like Tamiya can make a mistake. We work off of EXTREMELY limited resources. Mostly what can be scavenged off of the internet, or at the local museums. Yes, we are bound to make errors, but bashing such errors does the community no good, and is in fact a disservice to everyone. Noting them in a critique will help everyone.

As for "regulation" things for the most part self-regulate. We make bad models, they dont sell. No sales, no more models. It truly is that simple. Thats how free enterprise works. Supply and demand.
 
i'm so glad i only make freeware, no warranties , no stress , no money , no worries...

it diffuses the whole topic of this thread - i make stuff - i give stuff away - like it ,keep it - hate it ,delete it

simple is good - phew :wiggle:
Click to expand...

:ernae::ernae::ernae: I hear ya! :ernae:
Just wish my beer was freeware!
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Gibbage said:
I dont think to compare us to Airfix, Tamiya and the like is proper. The main reason is they sell to thousands of people if not millions. I see there kits on store shelfs all the time. On the other hand, we have (if we are lucky) hundreds of customers, and they all visit the same forums. If someone bashes a Tamiya model for missing a panel line, it may effect .001% of there customer base. If someone bashes our models for the same, it effects 100% of our customer base. As anyone who has ever put together a model can attest, even a company with great resources like Tamiya can make a mistake. We work off of EXTREMELY limited resources. Mostly what can be scavenged off of the internet, or at the local museums. Yes, we are bound to make errors, but bashing such errors does the community no good, and is in fact a disservice to everyone. Noting them in a critique will help everyone.

As for "regulation" things for the most part self-regulate. We make bad models, they dont sell. No sales, no more models. It truly is that simple. Thats how free enterprise works. Supply and demand.
Click to expand...

You are so right. The gentleman wanting to regulate this hobby thinks by comparing "Tamiya or Revell" that our hobby is as big as those, obviously its like comparing Mangos with peanuts.......The more regulation on anything usually makes it worst, just like governments today.....Oh, well, I am sure this "Tiny, tiny" hobby, which most humans don´t even know it exists, will not get the regulations most anyone do not want nor need. Instead of regulations ( Nasa Like apparently), what we need is reviews and more reviews of the models made and let the reader deside if he wants to spend the "huge ammount of dollars" they cost. More pics in forums like these and users telling their experience, that will make sales or not. Besides, if you look at this tiny hobby most models are Freeware and "regulations" could never apply......The more regulations this world has, the more humanity is encaged by those with power, like you say free enterprise works on self regulation by producing a good product for survival, but as you know the current "fad" is a go back to the Dreams of Socialism where every aspect of life "must be regulated"!!!!.....Oh well, that´s that, now back to my freeware Mission in China that will Not get regulated Never!!!!!!!:pop4::pop4::pop4:...not even by the Chinese!!!!!
 
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