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Flight Level (FL) question

Daveroo

Daveroo

Members +
ok i admit i dont know much about the instrument flying and all that...i dont use autopilot or follow the "real rules"...i take off and fly VFR and dont even use the ATC and i fly without any AI traffic...BUT i want to change all that...one step at a time though.......

i purchaced dispatch planner X ,i set up a flight from KAUN (auburn ca) to KBAB (beale AFB) 27.9 air miles west of KAUN,it said to use "FL330" now this through me for a loop because i thought this meant 33,000 feet...but as ive thought about it...it has got to mean 3,300 feet as i doubt you could take a cessna 206 to 33,000 ft and back down in 28 miles...and if you can....wouldnt that be a bit excessive?
anyway...how do you "read?" flight levels?
FL340? ect or FL3400? if there is sucha thing?
 
Daveroo said:
ok i admit i dont know much about the instrument flying and all that...i dont use autopilot or follow the "real rules"...i take off and fly VFR and dont even use the ATC and i fly without any AI traffic...BUT i want to change all that...one step at a time though.......

i purchaced dispatch planner X ,i set up a flight from KAUN (auburn ca) to KBAB (beale AFB) 27.9 air miles west of KAUN,it said to use "FL330" now this through me for a loop because i thought this meant 33,000 feet...but as ive thought about it...it has got to mean 3,300 feet as i doubt you could take a cessna 206 to 33,000 ft and back down in 28 miles...and if you can....wouldnt that be a bit excessive?
anyway...how do you "read?" flight levels?
FL340? ect or FL3400? if there is sucha thing?
Click to expand...
Daveroo,
ATC can be "quite excessive" just in it's own right, lol. In fact FL330 is 33,000. I believe the use of the word FL (flight level) is restricted to calling altitudes above 18,000. Below 18,000 you would refer to say 10,000 feet as "climbing to one zero thousand".

You may be able to set a predetermined altitude with that software. In other words, you set the altitude in the program and then ATC will go along with that altitude. If not, comply with the call to climb to that altitude and then request a lower altitude. They usually comply with that as well.
 
FL330 is indeed 33,000ft. 3,300ft wouldn't really be a flight level as they're generally round thousands of feet or +500ft e.g. 28,000ft = FL280, 25,500ft = FL255. I'm not sure how the +500' are handled in game, generally they're used outside controlled airspace in the UK where you fly tracks between North and 089M at odd thousands of feet, West and 179M at odd thousands plus 500', South and 279M at Even thousands etc. Other countries have various methods of handling it, e.g. in the US it's odd thousands between North and 179M and evens between South and 359M.
The flight planner may be ignoring aircraft performance when setting flight levels, I don't think many civilian aircraft could achieve FL330 and back in 28 miles. Interestingly the diversion procedures for the RN's Jetstreams is to climb until the midway point and then descend as it's the most fuel efficient profile, there is a flight level given but it's unlikely you'd actually reach it even if you end up diverting to Valley (from Culdrose for those who aren't as familiar with the UK's flying system as I am!).

To add to what Falcon said, in the US (and FSX which is basically US Flight Rules throughout) below 18,000' you're flying at altitudes which are read as 'Nine thousand feet' and you should have the regional pressure setting on the altimeter, above that you'll be on the standard pressure setting of 1013mb/29.92 inches of Mercury and fly at flight levels. In the UK* this happens above 3,000', or the transition level, other countries have different heights for this to happen, there are various publications that detail what the differences are between countries, generally referenced to the country they're published in.

*Apart from Scotland where the mountains get in the way, I think it's 5,000' there but as I rarely fly above 3,000' in real life anyway it's never cropped up.
 
Flight Level is based on standard pressure 29.92 for high flying traffic, 18,000 and above. Add two zeros to get your altitude, for example FL330 = 33000, FL017 = 1700 (although you would never hear it referred to as that)

I believe the main reason for FL is to avoid complications for fast traveling aircraft flying through different pressures, which could be a major problem for obvious reasons. That said, I am far from an expert on this subject.
 
Ok Daveroo,
I looked at the screenshots over at Simmarket on this program and you have a tab marked "Basic Flight Info" and that tab appears to allow you to set all the flight information to include altitude and airspeed. If that is the case, then you can set your own altitude prior to engine start and ATC will read the information out of your planner.
 
Just to correct a few people slightly, flight levels are used above what is termed the "transition altitude" (from altitude to flight levels). In the majority of Europe, including the UK, is actually 6000' (FL060). A lot more of the world standardised on the US value of 18,000'/FL180, while in certain places, it is measured in metres rather than feet and doesn't translate at all well.

At certain locations, you will find the transition altitude varies anyway, due to high terrain (flight levels can only be used above Minimum Safe Altitude anywhere). It should be able to be ascertained by looking at airfield charts, which should always show the transition altitude for that area somewhere - on the ones I have, it's in the top bar of the general aerodrome information page.
 
Not according to the IMC manual in front of me that says it has changed...

But then since when have CAA resources agreed with each other? :d
 
Genius! I know they've been talking about making the TL uniform across the UK/Europe but I didn't think they'd actually done it yet. I mean after the mass education programme about the change from FIS/RIS/RAS to Basic and the two I haven't used yet, I figured there might be some sort of promotion!
 
You kind of hope they might!
Click to expand...

But that would restrict their flexibility!
I've been searching their website and the most recent document I can find that refers to TA is from Mar this year and says pretty much the same as my previous link, you'd think they'd make something like this a bit easier to find!
 
It's the IMC section of an Air Law book, and it's dated as reprinted in 2007, so I'd guess that it's probably a cock-up on their behalf (kind of silly in an air law book!) and go with NATS... They're the guys who enforce du roolz, so you'd hope they'd be right.

Unfortunately, nio, the CAA and NATS websites are somewhat notorious for inconsistencies - or they were anyway. That's why I normally rely on what books and issued paper say. However in this instance it looks like the book is wrong. I'll verify that when I get chance because I thought it had changed. It's a good job my IMC is no longer valid!
 
Hmmm, interesting as it was definitely 3000' in '07 as I was in a flying job at the time and even I would have noticed that! From my reading around it looks like there are moves to standardise it across Europe at 10000' but how long that'll take is anyone's guess!
I believe the lower TAs are a hangover from the days of unpressurised transport aircraft as a lot of the air traffic never really got that high anyway (not good for the passengers and piston engines are generally better lower down anyway) and it needed to be at a height that would capture the majority of the air traffic. Obviously as aircraft developed it became less useful but there was no real pressure to change it.

Edited to add, I've just spoken to a mate who's in a flying job at the moment and he confirmed it is still 3000', and then asked if I didn't have better things to worry about on a Sunday evening!
 
Okay Daveroo,
Given the content of your original question, and the volumes of information in this thread thus far you should be either totally confused or packed with enough information to keep you busy for years, lol.

If you fly primarily inside US borders for the most part the the phrase "flight level" is used to call altitudes at 18,000 or above. It is not used below 18,000. The rest you can glean from listening to ATC as you fly using your newly purchased software. Enjoy your flights.:salute:
 
Standard Terminology for NINE = NINER

While in U.S. Navy training, check list (always used) says when flying through 18,000 set altimeter to 29.92 (two niner niner two) (that is the number shown in the Kollsman window). Below 18,000 the Kollsman window is set to the local barometric pressure given to you by ATC or obtained from a local radio source if flying VFR. Once 29.92 is set passing through 18,000 you are in the 'Flight Levels'. [Never flew over continental Europe, so I have no clue what altitude is the transition altitude.]
 
The purpose of setting the altimeter (barometer) to standard pressure being, that while everyone might be wrong about their actual altitude....they will all be wrong together, which means good separation between traffic.

After 18,000 the altimeter (barometer) becomes pretty much useless....not enough pressure to keep it going. That's why the TA in the U.S. is at that level.
 
I know from personal experience the altimeters work quite well from baro pressure through 45,000'.... Even the youtoo guys use them up into the 70's.

Many countries use quite different transition levels, some such as Netherlands use between 4000 and 5000 ft depending on the sea level pressure and whether you are climbing or descending. Ohter factors such as airport density, size of country and treeain can enter into the altitude selected for transition. In China and Russia it is metric....

T
 
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