An "Avatar" Question

[jmig]

Today I watched Avatar for the second time. I took my wife to see the movie. I noticed this time that Pandora is actually a moon to a gas giant planet.

Here is my question. The planet is obviously a tropical/warm planet (everyone runs around almost naked). However, I remember reading somewhere that gas giant planets can not exist close to their sun. The cosmic winds blow the gases away from the planet. That is why you only have rocky planets close to the sun.

If this is true, how can a moon to a gas giant be so warm? I ask this because James Cameron was involved with the tiniest detail to make sure it was believable. How could he make such a large mistake. Or is there a way to keep the planet warm, even though it was far from the sun?

 

[arrowmaker]

I ask this because James Cameron was involved with the tiniest detail to make sure it was believable.

Pandora has floating mountains. What research do you think Cameron could have done to ensure authenticity? He could'nt. It's a fantasy movie. I think when people talk about believability, in regards to this movie, they are talking about how the actors facial expressions have been very acurately translated onto the CGI characters. Thus any emotions expressed by the Navi is entirely believable.

 

[swpierce]

I was intrigued by your excellent question. The best explanation I could find is that you can get a lot closer to a red dwarf star.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091217183444.htm

 

[Ken Stallings]

James Cameron really doesn't sweat the details. Anymore than he's interested in a balanced approach to his scripts. The reality is this movie, despite all its pioneering special effects work, it truly a combination of Dances with Wolves meets The Grapes of Wrath.

It is Hollywood formulatic. Take an evil corporation, roll in unbridled greed, mix in a little corrupted militarism, and sprinkle with native PC and that's the script.

Thing is when Dances with Wolves and Grapes of Wrath were made, they were interesting plots completed in original ways. That's why those movies are true classics. Costner's movie is one of the best movies I've ever seen.

Avatar tries to be a message movie featuring a well worn message presented in an entirely predictable manner.

Ken

 

[MCDesigns]

James Cameron really doesn't sweat the details. Anymore than he's interested in a balanced approach to his scripts. The reality is this movie, despite all its pioneering special effects work, it truly a combination of Dances with Wolves meets The Grapes of Wrath.

It is Hollywood formulatic. Take an evil corporation, roll in unbridled greed, mix in a little corrupted militarism, and sprinkle with native PC and that's the script.

Thing is when Dances with Wolves and Grapes of Wrath were made, they were interesting plots completed in original ways. That's why those movies are true classics. Costner's movie is one of the best movies I've ever seen.

Avatar tries to be a message movie featuring a well worn message presented in an entirely predictable manner.

Ken

Would it have been that hard to include "in my opinion..." in that post?

<------Yep, a disagreeing fan.

 

[Ken Stallings]

More than merely my opinion. The general consensus views of hundreds of professional movie critics. You have every right to disagree.

Ken

 

[jmig]

More than merely my opinion. The general consensus views of hundreds of professional movie critics. You have every right to disagree.

Ken

Ken, I doubt there are "hundreds" of "professional" movie critics. However, be as it may, that wasn't the issue. I wasn't asking about the pros and cons of the movie. We "done did that" discussion a few weeks ago. I was asking about a seemly obvious major error, to me at least, within a very fine crafted work of cinematic art.

As for Mr. Cameron's attention to detail, I have read in more than one review/discussion article that he is extremely detailed in his direction. This movie took eight to ten years to come to fruition. Much of that was due to the exacting details of building a complete world, down to a full fledged language. He brought in Botanists and Zoologists to make sure the floral and fauna were accurate.

In my opinion the story line was nothing more than a vehicle for the visual feast and immersion into a new world. I was captivated by the world just as much the second time as the first. I could care less if he borrowed from a half dozen myths and made a Disney like storyline.

 

[Ken Stallings]

No disagreement on the special effects. It was again pioneering. He waited all those years because he accurately ascertained that the state of the art of special effects would not allow him to transform his visual vision into movie reality.

I just wish he had worked the plot equally well. By no means am I alone in that regard. Certainly I don't intent to diminish your theme of this thread. I wasn't aware of a previous discusion.

Cheers,

Ken

 

[PRB]

Umm, Ken. I think it can be incontrovertibly shown that 91.5 percent of the people here agree with me that most (if not all) Hollywood Movie Critic Dimwits are [maybe] not the best source of “help” from which to attempt to buttress your argument that a particular movie is or isn't the best (or worst) movie ever. Further, I think it's impossible to argue with me that 52 percent (maybe) would agree with me that your argument, whatever it is, may have a couple of weak spots if your sole attempt to strengthen it relies on pointing out that “the majority agrees with me therefore I'm correct.” After all, I, for one, am more impressed with a logically presented argument, stating facts, especially if your argument is held by a minority of argument presenters, which is what you normally provide here. Just sayin....

Jmig, it would probably take a million years for the solar wind to blow away the atmosphere of a closely orbiting gas giant. A lot could happen in that time. And, recent (real) discoveries of planets around other stars are most likely all gas giant types, and all of them are orbiting close to their parent star. Interesting...

 

[BPbobafett1982]

Hey jmig,

To get back on topic, I think it would depend on how close the moon was to its primary. Gas giants throw out alot of different radiations because of there super dense cores under all the gases. Jupiter for example has a very active magnetasphere and radiation belts, second only to the sun in our solar system.

Also another explanation would be the gas giants gravitational forces working on pandoa itself. Tidal heating has been observed in our own solar system, or a combination of them both. Just look at Io (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Io_(moon)) in our own solar system. It is one of the most volcanically active planetoids anywhere that we know of.

Brian

 

[CADFather]

Fern Gully with better animation and no Batty.

There are times the Earth would appear to be a gaseous planet, depending on the areas viewed and the current atmospheric conditions, and it sustains life, for now at least. As for the floating mountains, can you not believe that there are elements yet to be discovered, just like unknown life forms? Maybe some of those elements are heavier than the air on that moon and some are lighter. And maybe the criteria we use to search for other forms of life such as carbon based life forms at some of far reaches of space are the very antithesis of life there. Just because it's true in our world doesn't mean it is true everywhere, typical Earth attitude, everything is about you. (<== Parable to the rest of the worlds view of Americans, sad.)

 

[jmig]

Hey jmig,

To get back on topic, I think it would depend on how close the moon was to its primary. Gas giants throw out alot of different radiations because of there super dense cores under all the gases. Jupiter for example has a very active magnetasphere and radiation belts, second only to the sun in our solar system.

Also another explanation would be the gas giants gravitational forces working on pandoa itself. Tidal heating has been observed in our own solar system, or a combination of them both. Just look at Io (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Io_(moon)) in our own solar system. It is one of the most volcanically active planetoids anywhere that we know of.

Brian

Good points Brian. I had thought about gravitational forces heating Pandora but don't know enough about them and the effects they world cause. Maybe that is what keeps the floating mountains in the air.

 

[Piglet]

In that first "discussion" on this board, I mentioned the close proximity of Pandora to a gas giant. And the floating islands is due to the "unobtainium" in the crust. Suppositly unobtainium has very wierd magnetic properties that enable its use as a room temperature superconductor. Hence the expense and trouble mining it on Pandora.
How can that big gunship (the bloated-tick-looking one) get lift from those little ol' ducted props?!?

 

[OBIO]

I occasionally have gas...and sometimes that gas has some heat to it...not enough to warm an entire planet/moon, but enough to make my office chair warm. Now I suppose if my little amount of gas can heat my office chair, the amount of gas on a Gas Giant should be enough to heat a planet/moon...I would not recommend breathing the air however.

OBIO

 

[Lionheart]

Here is some basic information that might help.

Did you know.... Jupiter is one of the MOST HOTTEST planets in the solar system? Yes.. It somehow creates its own heat. How? Still a mystery. They have quite a few theories, but its a massive heater and super magnet and if you need gas, go there. They have tons...

Love those floating mountains...

<--- still hasnt seen the movie

 

[Cratermaker]

PRB has a valid point. You can't argue matters of taste. It always degenerates to "It sucked." and "No it didn't." Just because 51% of the people agree with your taste, it doesn't mean that you are "correct". There are no facts to back up your argument. Opinions on works of art definitely fall under taste. (Music, paintings, films, books...)

I couldn't care less what "professional movie critics" say. It's like letting auto critics tell me what the coolest car is or music critics telling me what the best music is.

EDIT: Oh and I watch movies for the what-if factor. If I had to examine the validity of every frame of every scene with scientific fact or attachment to reality, I might as well give up on any works of fiction!

 

[jmig]

Here is some basic information that might help.

Did you know.... Jupiter is one of the MOST HOTTEST planets in the solar system? Yes.. It somehow creates its own heat. How? Still a mystery. They have quite a few theories, but its a massive heater and super magnet and if you need gas, go there. They have tons...

Love those floating mountains...

<--- still hasnt seen the movie

Bill, do you realize that you are now a member of a minority. LOL More people have seen this movie, in this country, than haven't.

Do go see it and see it in 3D. You, who loves Sci fi, will really enjoy the movie.

 

[jmig]

Thank you all who commented on the possible explantations, including, "He missed it." I knew we have enough scientific brains here to get good ideas to help solve the puzzle.

Piglet, I had forgotten about the "unobtainium". There is a scene where a piece of it is floating over the director's desk. Maybe it is the reason for the floating mountains?

Oh well, it is fun to speculate but I now must get to more important matters. I must soon prepare myself to interlock minds and emotions with my fellow Who Dat nation citizens to send positive and strengthening flux waves to my Saints.

 

[exc141ac]

It's only a movie.

 

[arrowmaker]

Another movie which featured "unobtainium" was The Core. Anyone remember that one? In that movie the material was used to build a craft which could survive inside the Earth's core.