A-20 Question

Rami said:
Tonybones,

When I get around to it, I was going to ask Tom Sanford if he would mind doing an early-war version of the Havoc. The original early-war Havocs were powered by Twin Wasps, not Wright R-2600 Cyclones. It will depend on time. I suppose we could always slap a little black paint on her for now...
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:mixedsmi: ...........keep watching the skies ........ ( WIP )
 
Rami said:
Bones,

Nope. You're safe with the R-2600 for these models. Good question, though!
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p70.html
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Thanks for the link, that was interesting, I'll have to play with the .dp and change the 20mm over to .50s on our first model P-70, just for poops and grins. Only 2 kills the whole war? Sounds incredible. I don't know what exactly the Japs sent over for night intruders, but TR's P-70 has Bettys, Jills, and Judys for late night snack. I wanted some target practice and popped a Lorna in and set them in QC as fighters. Slaughter. Uncle Joe was a 40mm Bofors gunner on a destroyer in the Pacific, they first thought the Lornas were Ju 88s, they gave them the name of Sitting Duck.

Looks like Sopwith has plans to give us our Havoc I. I'll be lookin' forward each day to see what they come up with.

Night Flyer
 
The A-20 Havoc, in its various incarnations, was one of my favorite and to a large degree one of the most under-appreciated medium bombers in the US and British inventories. She was one of the highest performers of the medium bomber fleet, and yet it seems that the Marauder and Mitchell are always the ones that people remember first.
 
Rami said:
The A-20 Havoc, in its various incarnations, was one of my favorite and to a large degree one of the most under-appreciated medium bombers in the US and British inventories. She was one of the highest performers of the medium bomber fleet, and yet it seems that the Marauder and Mitchell are always the ones that people remember first.
Click to expand...

Rami, the public remembers the B-25, it was the Tokyo Raider, that raid was what lit the fire under the boiler of American resolve that Churchill spoke of. The B-26 was The Widow Maker, the plane that crashed till the aerodynamic design flaw was corrected. The anonymous nature of the A-20 is what contributes to this, it did it's job and did it well, but it was never in Tokyo, if you know what I mean. I don't care if the P-70 only scored 2 kills in the Pacific, it makes me glad to see the work TR and Sopwith have done giving us a replica, because I fly the thing, at dusk and at night, under the highest difficulty level, in all weather conditions CFS2 can replicate, and I've scored 22 victories so far. I duplicated the six-.50 caliber version by messing with the .dp file and it's still deadly.

There are many anomalies came out of WW2. I shared the puzzlement with Edward Jablonski on why Willi Messerschmidt ever decided to come out with the -F model 109. There was absolutely NO reason to omit the wing guns. Adolf Galland proved that by having a pair of MG FF mounted in the wings of his -F. The A-20 lived up to it's name, it was havoc for it's enemies, we get the chance to fly it again in our little mission-campaign universes.

Banzai!

Bonesimoto
 
Bones,

I actually think the 'Freidrich' series Bf-109 was the zenith of the design. The Germans in some ways shared fighter ideology with their Russian adversaries. What use is firepower if it cannot be brought to bear?

Bear in mind as well that many German pilots actually preferred the "streamline shooting" of aircraft like the Bf-109. Unlike their Allied adversaries, the DB-601s mechanical fuel injection allowed the engine to be mounted "inverted," (hence the ejector stacks on the bottom rather than the top) and so the remaining space in the upper fuselage could hold the machine guns and ammunition. It's an amazingly efficient design.

Many German pilots in this setup became expert marksmen (read about Hans-Joachim Marseillais sometime) because they were very adept at deflection shooting. Firing your bullets in a stream formation makes it easier to conserve your ammunition because you don't have to worry about gun convergence as you would with ammunition being fired from the wings, and the guns are far less likely to jam. Basically, you point at your target and shoot.

The disadvantages to this were a limited supply of ammunition, and the inevitable cost of pilot attrition. The theory of stream shooting is quite sound, but not all pilots possess the same quality of marksmanship. As the war ground on, less and less German (and for that matter, Japanese) pilots possessed these traits as their numbers dwindled. Convergence shooting with more ammunition in the wings was the Allied answer, and it was successful due primarily to sheer volume of planes and pilots.

As a CFS2 pilot who flies both sides, I love my Freidrich, and I like the concentrated streamlined firepower in the fuselage. I know all of her strengths and weaknesses, and I've brought down a baker's dozen on one mission! You just have to close the range and be quite picky with your aim. :cost1:
 
Rami said:
Bones,

I actually think the 'Freidrich' series Bf-109 was the zenith of the design. The Germans in some ways shared fighter ideology with their Russian adversaries. What use is firepower if it cannot be brought to bear?

Bear in mind as well that many German pilots actually preferred the "streamline shooting" of aircraft like the Bf-109. Unlike their Allied adversaries, the DB-601s mechanical fuel injection allowed the engine to be mounted "inverted," (hence the ejector stacks on the bottom rather than the top) and so the remaining space in the upper fuselage could hold the machine guns and ammunition. It's an amazingly efficient design.

Many German pilots in this setup became expert marksmen (read about Hans-Joachim Marseillais sometime) because they were very adept at deflection shooting. Firing your bullets in a stream formation makes it easier to conserve your ammunition because you don't have to worry about gun convergence as you would with ammunition being fired from the wings, and the guns are far less likely to jam. Basically, you point at your target and shoot.

The disadvantages to this were a limited supply of ammunition, and the inevitable cost of pilot attrition. The theory of stream shooting is quite sound, but not all pilots possess the same quality of marksmanship. As the war ground on, less and less German (and for that matter, Japanese) pilots possessed these traits as their numbers dwindled. Convergence shooting with more ammunition in the wings was the Allied answer, and it was successful due primarily to sheer volume of planes and pilots.

As a CFS2 pilot who flies both sides, I love my Freidrich, and I like the concentrated streamlined firepower in the fuselage. I know all of her strengths and weaknesses, and I've brought down a baker's dozen on one mission! You just have to close the range and be quite picky with your aim. :cost1:
Click to expand...

I agree with you up to a point, I agree the -F was a fine plane deserving of all accolades but as before,I agree with Edward Jablonski that Messerschmidt seemed to be obsessed with the design, as many German pilots stated, with "...sports cars rather than warplanes". It's true that Barkhorn and his wingman were equipped with 109-Gs while the rest of the squadron had 190-D9s due to their proximity to a Focke Wulf factory. Not every German pilot was Gerhard Barkhorn. I've done a little impromptu target shooting with some well-equipped friends, and have made a few shots over iron sights with a 1943 manufacture Russian Mosin Nagant 91/30 bolt action that some with an M1A National Match with scope would find tough to duplicate. I've outshot a few pre-1964 Remington 700s with the M/N. The bulk of Vasili Zeitzev's sniper kills were carried out over iron sights at 400 meters, not with scope as Jude Law portrays in ENEMY AT THE GATES.

Rapier or longsword? Broad sword or scimitar? The debate goes on and will continue. The -F was a rapier and deadly in the right hands. They just didn;t have enough of the right hands. They went up against dedicated and well trained automechanics, grocery clerks, and teenagers in Mustangs and Spitfires who were not dedicated, elite warriors. It goes back to our little debate of several weeks ago. The US had a two-ocean standoff, no bombing of our industry and sabotage, and we were able to do what Tojo and Hitler could not: fight a two-front war and win it. Hitler and Tojo thought they could take over the world with a few fencing foil thrusts, what they did was piss off the descendents of the Mongol hordes of Ghengis Khan, the descendents of the British troops at Roarkes Drift, and grocery clerks who seem to become blood mad berserkers in battle.

I haven't flown Greg Law's Gladiator yet, I do fly Thicko's MkI and II in 3 skins. There ain't a Zero, Yak, or 109 of any model can prevail over me in one on one dogfighting in what I call the Gladys. TR did a "stock" model 22 for CFS2, I went up against 8 of them one day. They shot my a** off but I took 6 of them with me, damaged a 7th to the point of a probable before I bailed out.

Hey, didn;t somebody do a 109-F with .dp file for Galland's field mod of the 20s in the wings? THAT is an -F I want to fly.

I'm looking forward to our Havoc I from TR.

Have a good one buddy.

Bones
 
Alright Rami, you're busted

You got my curiosity up, I went into my archives for an -F 109, I find a conversion for the Skyunlimited Free 109-F for FS2004, by a certain "Rami", that I downloaded on Dec. 7 2009.

I'm downloading it from SU as I write.

Rami, I have a 109-F with Galland's wing guns, that's all I'll say at the moment. The .dp is set up and fires from the wings, there are no bulges on the wings or protruding MGFF and the plane itself flies like a truck.

Do you think we might persuade one of our gurus to do visual graphics of the guns and .dp for the Su 109-F conversion, and skins for Galland?

BTW friends, the freeware SU 109-F fo FS2K4 is at:

http://skyunlimited.net/skyboard/YaBB.pl?num=1212914234

I think I got the conversion for CFS2 from Rami's site, not sure.

Bones
 
tonybones2112 said:
You got my curiosity up, I went into my archives for an -F 109, I find a conversion for the Skyunlimited Free 109-F for FS2004, by a certain "Rami", that I downloaded on Dec. 7 2009.

I'm downloading it from SU as I write.

Rami, I have a 109-F with Galland's wing guns, that's all I'll say at the moment. The .dp is set up and fires from the wings, there are no bulges on the wings or protruding MGFF and the plane itself flies like a truck.

Do you think we might persuade one of our gurus to do visual graphics of the guns and .dp for the Su 109-F conversion, and skins for Galland?

BTW friends, the freeware SU 109-F fo FS2K4 is at:

http://skyunlimited.net/skyboard/YaBB.pl?num=1212914234

I think I got the conversion for CFS2 from Rami's site, not sure.

Bones
Click to expand...

If someone give me the right texture, I'll give him the right Galland airfile and DP.

Cheers

Pepe
 
Asking for a favour...

...can TR make a earlier DB-7 plane with Twin Wasp, glassed and solid nose versions?

Pepe
 
Okay guys,

The SU Bf-109f is freeware. If you wanted to, you can take the conversion kit and use Oldwheat's gun tubes to modify the .dp and add the wing guns. In addition, if you don't like the airfile, you may certainly feel free to either create a new one or modify the existing one.
I can always give Jesse (Cerebus) a heads-up to keep him in the loop. :ernae:
 
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