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Eoraptor1 said:
This is a question to which I can never get an answer: At what point in human history did we NOT have PC?
JAMES
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James,

I did not start to see this obsession on what people said until around 1990. Prior to that people could tell jokes, make comments, and do a number of things in a lighthearted way without getting lambasted for it. Or even say things so long as it was an honest view and respectfully uttered. Then we got the advent of the agenda groups with hot lines to every 24-hour media service across the world. They turned speech policing into an international science.

In my view, PC is very much a modern derivation. I also think it's had a long enough shelf life and people are starting to rightly rebel against it. Right now, it seems a lot of the world has a corn cob stuck up itself and is in desperate need for a lubricant so they can take it out and relax and let people be themselves. And those who just want to live honestly and without malice for others just want the noise to quiet down.

Cheers,

Ken
 
I agree with Ken on the time frame for the start of PC. It got up full steam in the Navy in the wake of the 1991 Tailhook Convention fiasco. After all the blame-finding and hand-wringing and introspection everybody was walking on eggshells - God forbid anybody should speak their mind and risk offending somebody, especially anything that could even be remotely construed as gender bias.
 
Ken Stallings said:
James,

I did not start to see this obsession on what people said until around 1990. Prior to that people could tell jokes, make comments, and do a number of things in a lighthearted way without getting lambasted for it. Or even say things so long as it was an honest view and respectfully uttered. Then we got the advent of the agenda groups with hot lines to every 24-hour media service across the world. They turned speech policing into an international science.

In my view, PC is very much a modern derivation. I also think it's had a long enough shelf life and people are starting to rightly rebel against it. Right now, it seems a lot of the world has a corn cob stuck up itself and is in desperate need for a lubricant so they can take it out and relax and let people be themselves. And those who just want to live honestly and without malice for others just want the noise to quiet down.

Cheers,

Ken
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Prior to political correctness there was what? Racism, sexism, intolerance? If that's the good old days, then I'm happy in my 21st century hell.:running:
 
djscoo said:
Prior to political correctness there was what? Racism, sexism, intolerance? If that's the good old days, then I'm happy in my 21st century hell.:running:
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You really think that little of your elders?
 
Hmmm ....

Well I like to live in a world where people are free. I don't believe any gains realized through coercion or intimidation are beneficial to a democratic society. When evil is encountered a free people can follow the inspired leadership of men like Martin Luther King. King didn't believe in coercion. He believed in using freedom to protest.

That's how racism and intolerance was overcome, not through intimidation tactics that too frequently mislabel people unfairly.

When you start to want to tell people how to live their individual lives, you embark upon a slippery slope which ultimately leads to erosion of individual liberties. Past that, your presumption that without PC there must exist discrimination ignores another possibility. That is, that people free to choose their path in life might be happier and therefore there is less resentment in the world. And that within such freedom, society can gain true harmony, not merely the illusion of such reached through fear and intimidation, which can often lead to resentment.

Cheers,

Ken
 
I think that is a nice theory, but a free world in which we can all live in harmony is a paradoxical myth. We all have different views and beliefs, and I feel like it's best to respect others as you would wish your own beliefs to be respected. Go ahead and think what you may, just don't proselytize to me, because you are wasting your breath. :ernae:
 
Paradoxical myth!

My God, young man! You just labeled your nation's dream a myth! Put your faith in democracy and inalienable individual liberties and you won't be disappointed.

The impatience of youth cannot yeild itself to abridgement of liberty in the quest for presumed justice. People left to themselves will mostly get the details right.

I'm 46 years old and have had to fight multiple wars. You are 18. Yet, you appear more cynical than I've ever been in my life!

Ken
 
Ken Stallings said:
James,

I did not start to see this obsession on what people said until around 1990. Prior to that people could tell jokes, make comments, and do a number of things in a lighthearted way without getting lambasted for it. Or even say things so long as it was an honest view and respectfully uttered. Then we got the advent of the agenda groups with hot lines to every 24-hour media service across the world. They turned speech policing into an international science.

In my view, PC is very much a modern derivation. I also think it's had a long enough shelf life and people are starting to rightly rebel against it. Right now, it seems a lot of the world has a corn cob stuck up itself and is in desperate need for a lubricant so they can take it out and relax and let people be themselves. And those who just want to live honestly and without malice for others just want the noise to quiet down.

Cheers,

Ken
Click to expand...

First, I have absolutely nothing against you. I gain nothing by making a personal attack against you. Secondly, do you seriously want to stick with the statement that prior to the 1990s there were no mechanisms in place to kick people out of reindeer games if they said the wrong thing? No structure of reward and punishment? 1984 was written in 1948. I consider that to be a truly remarkable point of view given the sweep of history; again, with nothing against you. I'm just trying to get you correctly here.

JAMES
 
I don't deal in absolutes because isolated examples have existed forever. However, in terms of the advent of PC, yes, that was the timeframe.

The PC is an orchestrated and highly organized campaign to eradicate speech select people find objectionable. Prior to the '90's, yes I did not feel the oppression that has since become fashionable to implement.

I also believe the murders at Fort Hood represents the high water mark for PC. I won't tolerate it anymore because those folks killed in that attack were killed because otherwise smart people ignored warning signs because they lived in fear of retribution due to the PC process.

For me, a personal Rubicon was crossed. For me, that was enough. I've seen too many good people get trashed, and now murdered, because of this mania to coerce conformity of thought, speech, and deed.

Ken
 
Ken Stallings said:
I don't deal in absolutes because isolated examples have existed forever. However, in terms of the advent of PC, yes, that was the timeframe.

The PC is an orchestrated and highly organized campaign to eradicate speech select people find objectionable. Prior to the '90's, yes I did not feel the oppression that has since become fashionable to implement.

I also believe the murders at Fort Hood represents the high water mark for PC. I won't tolerate it anymore because those folks killed in that attack were killed because otherwise smart people ignored warning signs because they lived in fear of retribution due to the PC process.

For me, a personal Rubicon was crossed. For me, that was enough. I've seen too many good people get trashed, and now murdered, because of this mania to coerce conformity of thought, speech, and deed.

Ken
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Now we get to it. You and I have a fundemental difference in the way we see things, which is just in the nature of being human. I'm of the opinion that orchestrated and highly organized campaigns to eradicate speech select people find objectionable have existed forever and a day, and will continue to exist as long as one human being requires the unwilling compliance of another. Furthermore, I can back that opinion with examples going back to the beginings of civilization; NOT isolated examples, but a continuing paradigm. That you (and others) were able to go as long as the 90s without feeling it touch you I find truly remarkable. All I can say is, Welcome to the Circle.

I was as appalled by the events at Fort Hood as anyone; I have family in uniform right now, but it didn't surprise me when it happened. I personally am surprised when people pay attention to warning signs; there are countless examples of the reverse; or of affected ignorance. The philospical term is Ignorantia Affectata. I'm also of the opinion that deep in their heart of hearts everyone has something or someone they'd like censored. People who refuse to tell them the world is exactly what they say it is, should just shut up. That, IMO is the dirty little secret of our society.

Thank you for answering. Again, NOTHING against you. With all sincerity, I wish you and your family every good thing.

JAMES
 
No problem. I wish everyone could disagree with me with such honor and civility! I actually enjoyed reading it! :ernae:

Ken
 
Ken Stallings said:
No problem. I wish everyone could disagree with me with such honor and civility! I actually enjoyed reading it! :ernae:

Ken
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I thank you. I do believe in manners. (Exception: when I think they're being used as a butcher's apron I can behave very badly.) I particularly dislike cookie-cutter partisan rhetoric. I refuse to watch cable news channels after 8PM. IMO the US has very serious structural issues that cannot be addressed because of all the venom. I also stand by my words. I submit that we've had PC since the beginning of the Republic, and I'm quite prepared to back that assertion up. Do not doubt me. My specific critique is that it's rarely a problem if someone agrees with the policy; if they don't like what's being said, that's a very different story...

Your not dealing in absolutes is very Obi-wan Kenobi, Ken. I personally would have Force pushed Anakin Skywalker into the lava; going all Ike Turner on fine-a** Natalie Portman. Suffer no remorse he that uses me. That's what I say to my brain.

JAMES
 
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