Appetite for (Self) Destruction

[Eoraptor1]

I know there are quite a few players and music lovers here. I posted this link over at the Stratocaster forum where I sometimes contribute.

It's a <NOBR style="FONT-FAMILY: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: darkgreen; FONT-SIZE: 100%; FONT-WEIGHT: normal" id=itxt_nobr_0_0>C-SPAN</NOBR> Book TV lecture about the decline of the traditional recording industry by freelance and Rolling Stone contributing writer Steve Knopper, referencing his book "Appetite for Self-Destruction: The Spectacular Crash of the Record Industry in the Digital Age". I don't know how many of you are really interested in showbiz, but I found this extremely interesting, especially since people like Gene Simmons are still saying in the media that The Big Problem is that the government didn't put enough college students in jail. Knopper also wrote "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Starting a Band".

Go HERE: http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/291912-1


JAMES

 

[cheezyflier]

while much of what he says aligns itself with stuff i've been saying for a long time, there are some obvious, and dare i say it... deliberate untruths - that he perpetuates about the music industry. especially the speils about marketing, artist development and so on. it all boils down to greed.

one thing he do not adress is something i see rearing it's ugly head here as well as in the media and other places. because the record companies have spent big dollars campaigning to every ear and eye in the world about what they feel constitues theft, many people, lemmings that they generally are, rabidly call just about anything piracy if it doesn't have the stamp of some big corporation on it. too many people become self righteous prostletizers about anti-piracy and yet much of what they know about the issue was created by spin doctors hired by the recording industry.
how quickly people forget, anytime some public figure speaks out on any issue
where does the bulk of their expertise come from?
what is their motivation?
what do they have to gain from this?
where does the money come from and where is it going?

 

[Eoraptor1]

while much of what he says aligns itself with stuff i've been saying for a long time, there are some obvious, and dare i say it... deliberate untruths - that he perpetuates about the music industry. especially the speils about marketing, artist development and so on. it all boils down to greed.

one thing he do not adress is something i see rearing it's ugly head here as well as in the media and other places. because the record companies have spent big dollars campaigning to every ear and eye in the world about what they feel constitues theft, many people, lemmings that they generally are, rabidly call just about anything piracy if it doesn't have the stamp of some big corporation on it. too many people become self righteous prostletizers about anti-piracy and yet much of what they know about the issue was created by spin doctors hired by the recording industry.
how quickly people forget, anytime some public figure speaks out on any issue
where does the bulk of their expertise come from?
what is their motivation?
what do they have to gain from this?
where does the money come from and where is it going?

Cheezy,

Tell me more about the untruths; I love a good rhubarb. Really. I want to know more.

JAMES

PS You have one of my imaginary girlfriends in your avatar.

 

[cheezyflier]

for one thing, the picture he paints about artist compensation vs. cd sales is a myth.
artists are paid modest advances when they get signed. (look into the battle Boston had with their label over this very issue. it lead to a long delay between albums, and in the end nobody won but the lawyers) the "big bucks" they make comes from merchandising and touring. the artist makes very little if anything from the cd sales. when someone shares mp3's the alleged negative effect is to the record execs, not the artist. in fact, mp3 sharing has actually been shown to enhance the marketing efforts thus increasing ticket sales etc, which actually benefit the band. also, something they don't mention is the quality of an mp3 is not as good as the analog from vynyl. the highs and lows are clipped. yet when the record companies go after soccer moms and 12 yr old girls for trading britney spears songs on kazaa they are chaged beyond the value of the full recording, not for the lesser product actually distributed. pre-1990's when everybody recorded cassette tapes of each others stuff you never heard the word piracy, and you got the full boogie music. many tape players had high speed dubbing and were set up to go from tape to tape or album/cd to tape at high speed. my stereo could. nobody came knockin on my door when i copied "countdown to extinction" for all my buddies.
most of whom eventually bought their own copies, went to the concerts, bought the t-shirts, etc.
i remember their being a couple other things i noticet towards the end of his speech, but frankly i can't remember right now what they were without going back to watch it again.
my view of the issue pretty much lines up with this guy's:
http://www.demonbaby.com/blog/2007/10/when-pigs-fly-death-of-oink-birth-of.html

 

[FengZ]

a good product will make money, regardless of piracy.

It's always funny to see that the people who complain the most about piracy are those who never made a successful product (or a product which is no longer selling well because the business channel is no longer valid).

I work in both the film and game industry, and a lot of the products i've worked on are pirated. In fact, Transformers the movie was the #1 pirated movie last year. However, none of us who worked on it are hurting. This is because these films/games sell well on the legal market. If you make a great product, people will pay for it. I actually love seeing the products i've worked on show up high on the pirated list...because that means they are also doing extremely well on the market. One look at TPB shows games such as Mass Effect 2, BioShock 2, etc. very high on the list....but none of these companies are going out of business right? In fact, they are making millions a day right now.

The music industry complains because they are the slowest to evolve with technology. The record companies are still too greedy and still want to stick to CD sales (biggest margins for them). They need to use other methods to make money..

if you are dealing with digital media, you need to also do business in the digital realm....or think of other ways to get sales. For example:

If i buy a CD from an artist, i get a free ticket to their live concert. And since nobody can "pirate" a live event, this is a in-direct way to sell something... does that make sense? If i didn't buy the CD, the ticket price will be much higher for example.

Another example: I pay $1 for any music and can download them as many times as i want. If i delete it, i can always retrieve it from the server. And this server account can be accessed via my iPhone, Laptop, MP3 player, etc from anywhere in the world (so i basically have an account w/ all my music safely stored).....so i buy once, the music is automatically synced to all my devices. And if there are mixed versions of the song, or special editions, i get them for free (like an patch in games). I know iTunes have something like this right now, but since it only works w/ iTunes, that shuts off a lot of users.

These types of services will encourage users to pay, rather than pirate. However, it takes a lot of parties to work together to implement them....and since everyone wants the money for themselves....it'll be a long time before it'll happen.

-feng

 

[Ken Stallings]

Cheezy makes excellent points. The artists make their money on the tours.

FengZ nails the marketing options the RIAA missed as well as makes a brilliant point regarding piracy.

Another aspect of the RIAA is that they've frozen out a lot of the older artists. But the artists don't really care anymore because they distribute their new music online or through low-cost self-development of the CD's.

The era of the RIAA is truly at an ebb and eventually will go out of the business. Online music means artists can market directly to their fans and as this grows more prevalent the need for a middle man to produce and market music eliminates itself.

The same thing is happening in the book publishing business but at a far lessor level because since it takes hours to read a book, the portability still attracts people. But online publishing and web blogs have eaten into the book market substantially.

That said, pirating is illegal. So, while it is right to point out the excesses of the RIAA to chase a diminishing money pile, it is also impossible to give the organized pirates any lattitude. Where the RIAA went totally wrong is going after private citizens vice work with the online digital music websites as they did with manufacturers of cassette tapes. The RIAA was offered a percentage based royalty of all music downloads, but rejected it.

Going after mom and pop gave them publicity, but more of the black eye variety. Companies makes more money when they quietly -- and quite boringly -- go after quiet revenues. The RIAA made this fatal mistake.

I have purchased one music CD in the last 10 years -- a Johnny Cash "American IV" CD.

I'm not by any means alone!

Ken

 

[Eoraptor1]

for one thing, the picture he paints about artist compensation vs. cd sales is a myth.
artists are paid modest advances when they get signed. (look into the battle Boston had with their label over this very issue. it lead to a long delay between albums, and in the end nobody won but the lawyers) the "big bucks" they make comes from merchandising and touring. the artist makes very little if anything from the cd sales. when someone shares mp3's the alleged negative effect is to the record execs, not the artist. in fact, mp3 sharing has actually been shown to enhance the marketing efforts thus increasing ticket sales etc, which actually benefit the band. also, something they don't mention is the quality of an mp3 is not as good as the analog from vynyl. the highs and lows are clipped. yet when the record companies go after soccer moms and 12 yr old girls for trading britney spears songs on kazaa they are chaged beyond the value of the full recording, not for the lesser product actually distributed. pre-1990's when everybody recorded cassette tapes of each others stuff you never heard the word piracy, and you got the full boogie music. many tape players had high speed dubbing and were set up to go from tape to tape or album/cd to tape at high speed. my stereo could. nobody came knockin on my door when i copied "countdown to extinction" for all my buddies.
most of whom eventually bought their own copies, went to the concerts, bought the t-shirts, etc.
i remember their being a couple other things i noticet towards the end of his speech, but frankly i can't remember right now what they were without going back to watch it again.
my view of the issue pretty much lines up with this guy's:
http://www.demonbaby.com/blog/2007/10/when-pigs-fly-death-of-oink-birth-of.html

Cheezy,

Thank you for the link. I ask that you please say more about the afforementioned media blitz.

JAMES

 

[cheezyflier]

what i refer to is the constant barrage of one-sided opinion that is forced on anyone and everyone who reads a news article about the issue, buys a cd, or buys/rents or goes to see a movie.
it's propaganda. it's meant to cause peoples thinking to line up with someone else's opinion.
the very word "pirate" conjures images of a dirty outlaw who is a menace to society. but the truth is, most of the people chased by the record companies are John Q. Public. why? because the real pirates either have the money to fight back, or they are untouchable because they are in a country where the law does not pursue them. bottom line, chasing them is not profitable, and it doesn't create headlines.

why should i have to deal with write protected cds? i bought them, and i should be able to tranfer the content into any medium i wish.
why should i be forced to sit through the anti-piracy messages on the movies i legitemately paid for? those messages don't appear on the bootlegs. does that make a lick of sense?
9 out of 10 times you read a news article about the record company using strong arm tactics on someone who is downloading music they play up the concept of how much estimated losses "pirates" cost the record companies. you never hear of the many people who go on to buy music they would otherwise not have known existed. for example, the band mustasch. those guys rock! they had about 6 albums out before i ever heard of them. they just aren't marketed that strongly.
i got turned on to them by chewbone's blog. i will have to special order their music, but i eventually will, because i want the full sound, and it's the right thing to do.

 

[Eoraptor1]

what i refer to is the constant barrage of one-sided opinion that is forced on anyone and everyone who reads a news article about the issue, buys a cd, or buys/rents or goes to see a movie.
it's propaganda. it's meant to cause peoples thinking to line up with someone else's opinion.
the very word "pirate" conjures images of a dirty outlaw who is a menace to society. but the truth is, most of the people chased by the record companies are John Q. Public. why? because the real pirates either have the money to fight back, or they are untouchable because they are in a country where the law does not pursue them. bottom line, chasing them is not profitable, and it doesn't create headlines.

why should i have to deal with write protected cds? i bought them, and i should be able to tranfer the content into any medium i wish.
why should i be forced to sit through the anti-piracy messages on the movies i legitemately paid for? those messages don't appear on the bootlegs. does that make a lick of sense?
9 out of 10 times you read a news article about the record company using strong arm tactics on someone who is downloading music they play up the concept of how much estimated losses "pirates" cost the record companies. you never hear of the many people who go on to buy music they would otherwise not have known existed. for example, the band mustasch. those guys rock! they had about 6 albums out before i ever heard of them. they just aren't marketed that strongly.
i got turned on to them by chewbone's blog. i will have to special order their music, but i eventually will, because i want the full sound, and it's the right thing to do.

Thanks for answering, Cheezy.

JAMES