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Cross wind landing ... again

Narrow main gear width ... tailwheel with the cg so far aft of the main gear ... increasing p-effect as the tailwheel settles down ..... there are many reasons why tailwheel aircraft are much harder to land and keep under control after touchdown than is a nose gear aircraft.

This is why there is a separate endorsement for tailwheel aircraft.

Cheers,

Ken
 
Interesting Cockpit Ride

Back in the pre 9/11 days, one of the benefits of being airline employees was the occasional ride in the cockpit. Well I managed the last seat on a DC-9 from Calgary to Winnipeg one night. The whole ride was bumpy and the jumpseat in the 9 is pretty darned cramped so I was getting kinda grumpy. Normally the crew lets the Autopilot fly the approach and then glideslope capture down to whatever minimums they are using. Well that day the autopilot could not hold the aircraft on the glideslope because of a gusting crosswind. After the Autopilot tripped, scaring the heck out of me, you should have seen the that pilot working that control column. I swear he rowed that aircraft to the ground. I learned a bit more respect for pilot's that day:salute:, and I don't say that lightly. For all the boredom that tubeliner's entail, there are still moments of pure adrenaline fueled action that demand the best flying skills available.

Regards, Rob
 
One of the unanticipated advantages I've enjoyed getting a low wing airplane is two fold, one being I get to ride the ground effect and get a little more control on crosswind and I also get nice wide landing gear. Of course you get wet when it rains....

I'm like Ken in that I would rather land in a steady crosswind than gusty down the middle of the runway.

My one bad crosswind experience came not from the crosswind itself, but from my attempt to correct during the touch and go by using rudder at the same time I applied throttle...I did not anticipate how quickly I would regain rudder effectiveness and just about ran it off the side....again, 2 - 3 seconds of intense panic before I got hold of myself....

Then about an hour wondering if anyone saw me.....:icon_lol:
 
I don't know if this has already been said,

but the method is not a debate, it depends on the plane and what the manufacturer reccomends. Generally speaking, he de-crab type is usualy used on larger aircraft that can't dip a wing much and have inertia, and the forward slip is mostly used in general aviation. If you land with a wheel any more than a few degrees off from the direction you're headed in a tiny plane, it can very well dart off in that direction. I've done it before in an old Cessna 170 and it's no fun.
 
tigisfat said:
I don't know if this has already been said,

but the method is not a debate, it depends on the plane and what the manufacturer reccomends. Generally speaking, he de-crab type is usualy used on larger aircraft that can't dip a wing much and have inertia, and the forward slip is mostly used in general aviation. If you land with a wheel any more than a few degrees off from the direction you're headed in a tiny plane, it can very well dart off in that direction. I've done it before in an old Cessna 170 and it's no fun.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I cannot accept this statement. It is not a procedure to use the slip method in GA aircraft. That is not true. It is very much pilot technique and what works best.

And that comes not merely from me, but numerous FAA Designated Pilot Examiners and CFI's.

Cheers,

Ken
 
It's a debate in that two pilots will use two different techniques in the same airplane. Some prefer to fly a crab all the way into ground effect (some even wait until the last second and just kick the tail in).. Some (me) prefer to start the slip as early as the wind will allow. And it's not a wrong vs right debate.. it's more an "I do it this way because".. debate. You'll find plenty of skilled, accomplished pilots on either side of it.

It most likely goes back to how you were taught. I remember vividly, sitting near the threshold with my instructor, watching airplanes land in a stiff cross-wind. I'd get a, "SEE .. that's how it's done".. from him when we'd see a plane with the upwind wing lowered well before entering ground-effect. "Passengers don't like flying sideways when the ground gets close".. "Nor seeing the runway out the side window".

Then.. as I gained experience.. I liked the idea of getting a feel for the cross-control before floating down the runway.. and now I don't even think about cross-winds... I just start the process of center-line by aileron, heading by rudder as though it were any landing..
 
Ken Stallings said:
Sorry, I cannot accept this statement. It is not a procedure to use the slip method in GA aircraft. That is not true. It is very much pilot technique and what works best.

And that comes not merely from me, but numerous FAA Designated Pilot Examiners and CFI's.

Cheers,

Ken
Click to expand...


So you're saying that there aren't reccomended techniques for most aircraft? That's what I was saying. I will always teach the book.
 
Isn't it also a problem that you risk dropping a wing when you put the aircraft out of a crab / slip motion? When the aircraft gets straightend out for the line up one wing decelerates and one wing accelerates, creating different lift on either side.
That also can lead to the wind getting cought under the up-going wing.

There's a interesting video of such a FUBAR occurance that happened here in Germany about 2 years ago. The left wing of the Airbus actually dragged over the ground before the PIC decided to go around.

[video]http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ddb_1204404185[/video]

<object width="450" height="370"><param name="movie" value="http://www.liveleak.com/e/ddb_1204404185"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.liveleak.com/e/ddb_1204404185" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="450" height="370"></embed></object>

Cheers,
Mark
 
Concerning crab vs sideslip etc...
In many 'Heavies' like the 767 the Autopilot enters the align mode at 500ft, which means the aircraft is slowly transitioning from a crab into a sideslip.
Flying the 767 I always use the crab method until 100ft or 10ft depending on the situation.
But Boeing states that there are 3 methods for landing the 767, they don't recommend one and leave it up to the pilot.
de-crab, landing with crab and the sideslip.
A least on the 767) pushing the nose straight creates a lot of drag with that big rudder so you have to anticipte that and either add power or carry more speed into the flare.
Next problem is the roll that is induced by pushing the nose straight. Again you have to anticipate that required aileron input.
You don't want to get the 'wrong' gear down first!
On the CRJ 100 this could be a real problem. When you slowed too much during the flare you could easily run out of aileron in this situation. No fun.
The next 'suprise' came when you started using reverse thrust which reduces the rudder effectiveness very much due to the vicinity of the reverser sleeves and the rudder

For those who aren't sure if the gear can take the stress of a crosswindlanding without removing the crab...............http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljOxo0s33sI

Concerning the Airbus in the above video, it's interesting to know that when the left wingtip was dragging on the runway, the ailerons were neutral, despite the pilot applying full right aileron!!!
 
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