• There seems to be an uptick in Political comments in recent months. Those of us who are long time members of the site know that Political and Religious content has been banned for years. Nothing has changed. Please leave all political and religious comments out of the forums.

    If you recently joined the forums you were not presented with this restriction in the terms of service. This was due to a conversion error when we went from vBulletin to Xenforo. We have updated our terms of service to reflect these corrections.

    Please note any post refering to a politician will be considered political even if it is intended to be humor. Our experience is these topics have a way of dividing the forums and causing deep resentment among members. It is a poison to the community. We appreciate compliance with the rules.

    The Staff of SOH

  • Please see the most recent updates in the "Where did the .com name go?" thread. Posts number 16 and 17.

    Post 16 Update

    Post 17 Warning

P36 exclusive screenshots

huub vink said:
Dean,

You make me curious... and I gave it a long thought. Viry-Châtillon South of Paris already existed in 1909. Lyon however already had an airfield in 1907. Mulhouse already had an airfield in 1906, but I think this region was German in those days..... Étampes is quite old but I don't think it is that old.

So I give up, which airfield is in the making?

Huub
Click to expand...

Hi Huub,

Prior to you posting I thought to myself ok.. I might get flamed here on the oldest airfield in France so I edited my post to say (Possibly) hahaha

The airfield in question is St Ingelvert.

Regards
Deano
 
Ha ha, don't worry, I was just curious. Saint Inglevert is old, but I don't think it is that old. However it is a very interesting airfield as it was not only used by the French in 1940, but also by RAF fighters from the BEF.

Cheers,
Huub
 
lol :wiggle:

From my sources.. the airfield was just a grass area until the Germans took it over and then constructed a concrete strip on it. We'll be doing only the grass version though.

if anyone has any interesting photos of Saint Inglevert, I would love to get hold of any additional photos to help us.
 
On takeoff's and handling. please keep in mind that i'm in this thing 4 to 6 hours a day in little 2 to 5 minute segments, so i'm always looking for troubles, always feeling the slightest "bump". i could be overreacting.
Since we're still in alpha dev on the flight model, i suspect my numbers may be off in areas including lift. Raising them so that the plane lifts off at something slower that 120 knots will be a challenge as its not just one number that need to be changed. its going to be the entire flight model that needs to be adjusted, but, i suspect that i'm in the ballpark already. i would be suspicious of flaps on this or the p-40 not being able to withstand 200mph max speed limits though. The current numbers being used for flap limits are from the Iris P-40 i worked on, as those numbers came directly from Curtiss and the MOD. mostly the MOD. Speed limitations for modern day P-40s ( and likewise P-36s ) are indeed limited to 140 mph, but all aerobatics are also outlawed as well..
THAT said, i just watched a p-40 claw its way off the ground at 80 mph. something my P-36 doesnt do yet, so apparently, i have a bit more work to do :)..
Thanks for the alert. you saved me from possibly making a grave error..
Pam

heh.. another addendum.. Wing loading on the P-36 and P-40 both was 31.5 pounds per square foot.
 
Bomber_12th said:
For anyone interested in watching the P-36 in action (note how nicely the aircraft gets airborne):<object height="385" width="480">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/e3TzxzU_cwc&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="385" width="480"></object>
Click to expand...

Its amazing the way the p-36 almost dwarfs that little morane.. i think the 36 scared the other guy when the morane did that fast left break ::lol:;..
 
Yep, take off in the P-36 would be at much slower speed than 120 mph, let alone knts. For the P-40E, you can safely break ground at 100 mph, and the P-36 was a lighter ship, with the same wing area. Stall speed, as I recall, in the P-36 is right around 72-75 mph, so I wouldn't see there being any problem in breaking ground at 85-90 mph, safely. Unfortunately I don't have a manual in hand to back this up.

All in all, I just want to make sure that you aren't making the aircraft challenging where it really isn't. ;)
 
manuals and official documentation have been the bane of the project from the start. even finding statements and comments from p-36 pilots has been a rare treat and not at all common. I estimated stall speed at around 83 mph w flaps. at least i wasnt too far off my rocker..
the only thing we've actually had to work with besides wiki ( yuck) is pictures and 3 views, and a tiny bit of irish luck ( and a whole lot of mr murphy ).. Once i clean up after murphy, it wont be too difficult to set it all right..
 
Bomber_12th said:
All in all, I just want to make sure that you aren't making the aircraft challenging where it really isn't. ;)
Click to expand...

I'm hoping i dont, but with as little data as there is, and given the technology of the day, its a bit hard to avoid. like i said, it has 31 pounds per square foot of wing loading. thats heavy for that type of wing. i would expect 25 pounds maybe, maybe even 27, but 31 is a shocker.. given the negative lift on the tailplane added into the equation and i can tell ya, this plane needed someone who knew how to fly.. the videos are deceptive. those pilots make it look simple..
not to worry though, besides having what we think is a dead on flight model, theres ggoing to be a second that can be used which will be far easier to manage.. i wont produce something that isnt enjoyable.. or at least, i try my best not too..
Pam
 
No problem Pam - I had actually figured that there would be much more resources in your hands to use. The abilities of designing flight dynamics is still way beyond me, though I can just as easily fuss about them as the next guy. :d

I look forward to seeing, and feeling, the finished product!
 
Deano said:
lol :wiggle:

From my sources.. the airfield was just a grass area until the Germans took it over and then constructed a concrete strip on it. We'll be doing only the grass version though.

if anyone has any interesting photos of Saint Inglevert, I would love to get hold of any additional photos to help us.
Click to expand...

How's this? Really that 2nd link is awesome. :wavey:

http://norav.50megs.com/images/st_ingelvert_france.jpg

http://www.anciens-aerodromes.com/terrains aviations/StInglevert.htm
 
Bomber_12th said:
No problem Pam - I had actually figured that there would be much more resources in your hands to use. The abilities of designing flight dynamics is still way beyond me, though I can just as easily fuss about them as the next guy. :d

I look forward to seeing, and feeling, the finished product!
Click to expand...

:;CHUCKLES:; NO WORRIES.. The thing thats scary for me is its becoming organic.. Not exactly what most people would call technical.. more like biological or even dynamically systemic like a spiders web. Lower one number and some other number is now too high, raise another number and it takes three or four other areas up with it.. Tug here, it rips there, cut there, and somewhere else collapses.. its really quite interesting..
 
Thank you for making a grass version of the airfield, people here have bad feeling with german concrete :salute:
Note the pilot on the first screenshots seems to be a Pandorian :naturesm:
 
Alain?? I find myself at a moment of pure ignorance.. Would you mind explaining what a pandorian is?? All i can find on the web are references to fantasys and oddly "gone with the wind"..
Thanks
Pam
 
Pam,

According to the French Hawk 75-A1 manuals (Notice sommaire générale du Curtiss H75 A1 and the Notice de Manoeuvre de l'avion Curtiss H-75-A.1), the Hawk started to show some lateral instability below 160 kilometers per hour and became less sensitive on the pitch below that speed.

According to the manual stall speed was between 80 and 110 kilometers per hour. Stall speed with lowered flaps is not mentioned.

Drag causes by the cowling flaps from the engine would cause a 10% speed reduction at any speed and setting.

During a normal landing the flaps should be lowered to 45º at 120 kilometers per hours. Flaps should never be lowered when speed exceeds 225 km per hour.
In all "standard" conditions (the French used 4 standard set-ups) the flaps should be up during take off according the manual. However in the flight specification the take off with lowered flaps is described.

The landing shown in the movie posted by Bomber_12th is exactly how it is described in the manual. Arrive at the runway close to stall speed and tilt the nose a bit (or according the French description "raise the engine")

I hope this helps you a bit.

Cheers,
Huub

EDIT: Some additional information I found in Section VI CARACTERISTIQUES DE VOL (Flight characteristics)

Start:
With a start weight of 2630 kg a minimum path of 250 meters is required to be clear of obstacles 8 meters in height.
With flaps lowered 45º take off speed is 118 km/hr. And the aircraft will requires a runway of 165 meters before it lifts.

Landing:
For landing path of 380 meters free of obstacles of 8 meters in height is required for landing.
With flaps down 45º and a touch down speed of 112 km/hr the aircraft will require 225 meters of runway from touch down until full stop.
 
its gonna help a lot huub :).. Thank you.. might have to make a gauge to cause the extra drag from the cowl flaps but compared to the rest of the airplane, that shouldnt be too hard..

Ok,, blind irrational admission time.. Everything i had described about this plane is eactly how it was behaving untill last night, when i found that something had gone in and changed all my realism settings to minimal. Needless to say, as soon as i corrected the realism settings, the plane was no longer flyable, BUT, as of 8AM this morning, the plane is back in the air and we're moving quickly to return this plane to the dream she has been.
Pam
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top