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FS9 to CFS2 occasionally crashes to desktop

PJMack said:
Thank you all for the great input. It proves that Bearcat is once again correct in his omniscient view of this sim. It was the VC.

Thanks all.

PS Shessi, I haven't forgotten the airfile. I'll send it tonight.:salute:
Click to expand...
Now I've got it. Thank you for typing more slowly this time.
 
bearcat241 said:
If it CTD's in QC with wingmen flying the same model, its the lightstates.
Click to expand...


Hi Bearcat,


could you expand yourself a bit on this. Most problems I have with FS9 planes converted to CFS2 are related to crashes to desktop when flown with AI planes around.


Should I do the same with g_lightStates as with crash_check as you explained before?


Thanks in advance*:salute:
 
Yep, deal with them just like we've discussed. The AI engine doesn't support the more complex FS8/9 lightstates animation tags in AI-controlled models. CFS2 has its own form of rudimentary lighting animations that can be designed into a model through a CFS2 compatible design program, but not the FS lightstates code. However, the sim's player engine does somehow allow this in the player's a/c, that's why you as player only can fly a model with LS code in FF, QC and missions with no probs.

Regarding the crash checks, this one is a different animal. These are FS tags in the mdl file that interfere with the sim's combat action controls, even on the player's model. If you get hit by ground fire or crash or collide with another plane, the crash check references in the mdl file will most likely trigger a CTD response and shut you down. Its best to just nip both of these together while "under the hood" in scasm or hexing
 
Thanks a lot for your tips, Bearcat :icon29:.


If only had I known that a while ago, I wouldn't have discarded a number of lovely FS2004 planes that refused to fly as AI. Now I know what to do*:applause:.
 
JapLance said:
Thanks a lot for your tips, Bearcat :icon29:.


If only had I known that a while ago, I wouldn't have discarded a number of lovely FS2004 planes that refused to fly as AI. Now I know what to do*:applause:.
Click to expand...


Yes, BC...Thank you very much for sharing your tips.:salute:
 
Just an easy one to remember and make sure of,

When converting make sure you're using Ivan Hsu MDLC version 1.90 or if using Morton's mkMDLC make sure it's version 2 along with MDLC v1.90. This 1.90 version (the last one) was tweaked to take out the g_lightstates call automatically in the conversion.

All Fs9 models do not have the crash check call in but they will have the multiple lighting calls. So by running MDLC v1.90, you're already removing one potential problem.
A lot of converted ac may be ok with just the g_lightstates removed, if not and you are using MDLC v1.90, you now know that you only have to remove the crashcheck call. Cuts down time and effort!

It shouldn't be too difficult(?) to mod the MDLC.ini/replacement DICT section to automatically remove/null the crashcheck call during the conversion. If, Ivan, you're reading this I wonder if you could comment?

Cheers Shessi
 
Shessi said:
Just an easy one to remember and make sure of,

When converting make sure you're using Ivan Hsu MDLC version 1.90 or if using Morton's mkMDLC make sure it's version 2 along with MDLC v1.90. This 1.90 version (the last one) was tweaked to take out the g_lightstates call automatically in the conversion.

All Fs9 models do not have the crash check call in but they will have the multiple lighting calls. So by running MDLC v1.90, you're already removing one potential problem.
A lot of converted ac may be ok with just the g_lightstates removed, if not and you are using MDLC v1.90, you now know that you only have to remove the crashcheck call. Cuts down time and effort!

It shouldn't be too difficult(?) to mod the MDLC.ini/replacement DICT section to automatically remove/null the crashcheck call during the conversion. If, Ivan, you're reading this I wonder if you could comment?

Cheers Shessi
Click to expand...


The lightstates call isn't always automatically removed by v1.90. In the early days of MDLC, most LS calls were simply links to exterior lighting on FS models, like strobes, beacons and navs. These were simple for MDLC to nullify with "userdefined0" keyframe replacements without adversely affecting the model. But there will be times when the LS call is linked to another original animation keyframe which has CFS2 convertibility, like VC controls and switches, crew animations, gear animations, park brake or even engine states. If so, the program will sometimes leave the related LS tags in the mdl and you have to manually remove them or change them to some CFS2 animation guid fitting to the related calls in scasm. I've seen this quite a bit more over the past two years as opposed to the earlier years of MDLC conversion work. Its because animations in FS modeling has become far more complex in linkages and the levels of sophistication are quickly outstripping the MDLC code. A perfect example would be the SF8_F-86EF conversion where lightstates calls were linked to the animated pilot, the landing gear and the engine state. This was a bitch to resolve and could only have been done on the stock converted model in scasm without troubling the designer to redo the model in GMAX for better convertibility.

But on your second point, Shessi, of modding the MDLC.ini/replacement DICT section, there might be a way to edit the INI file to instruct MDLC to automatically remove/replace the crash checks with "userdefine0". The KEYFRAME_NAME_LIST section that you referred to allows the user to manually force MDLC to replace original FS keyframe names with any desired substitute CFS2 keyframes by using the format below (the FS originals are black/blue, the CFS2 subs are red -- and AFAIK the spacing and semicolons are part of the formatting):

[KEYFRAME_NAME_LIST]
keyframe_name_1=userdefined0
keyframe_name_2=userdefined0
keyframe_name_3=userdefined0
keyframe_name_4=userdefined0
keyframe_name_5=userdefined0
keyframe_name_6=userdefined0
keyframe_name_7=userdefined0
keyframe_name_8=lever_stick_l_r ;l_aileron_key
keyframe_name_9=lever_stick_fore_aft ;elevator_key
keyframe_name_10=lever_pedals_l_r ;rudder_key
keyframe_name_11=lever_stick_l_r ;r_aileron_key
keyframe_name_12=cowling ;cowl_flaps0
keyframe_name_13=r_canopy ;f_canopy
keyframe_name_14=cowling ;cowl_flaps1
keyframe_name_15=crash_check ;userdefined0
keyframe_name_16=userdefined0
keyframe_name_17=userdefined0
keyframe_name_18=userdefined0
keyframe_name_19=userdefined0
keyframe_name_20=userdefined0

I haven't tested the above crash check addition yet, but the idea occurred to me after reading your post.
 
Fair point about Fs9 ac getting more complicated and maybe it not always working, but a good way to start off on the right foot with v1.90.

Great stuff BC! I'm little embarrassed (of myself!) why it wasn't thought of/done before! It seems to works!

See attached pic. This is an old 2004 Capt Sim Yak3, very nice model and good skins. Converts easily and flys well enough in FF, but CTD as soon as you went to launch QC. Ran the Fs9 model through the modded ini and there you go a fully usable conversion.

Got to try a few others...but fingers crossed.

Cheers Shessi
 
:salute:
bearcat241 said:
The gurus have spoken...all excellent replies IMHO. But to narrow it down, if the model loads and flies in FF as single player, then CTD's on exit, its gonna be a panel gauge problem in VC. If it CTD's in QC with wingmen flying the same model, its the lightstates. As for possibly having an oversized mdl, if that's the case, it won't even load when selected from the aircraft selection window -- the sim will hang or CTD the moment you select the model. And finally, as B24 said, if it CTD's when it crashes or collides with other planes, its still got its original FS crash check flag in the mdl file.

Going back to the gauge probability, the best way to test is to replace the entire panel outfit with a blank panel config from one of the old freeware Alphasim products. Their early CFS2 freeware releases all came with a blank panel setup that had no graphical 2D panel and no gauges in the VC or 3D panel. By replacing the current FS9 panel outfit with this and flying about 10 sessions or so, you'll know for certain.
Click to expand...

BearCat,

I have edited the model that I am working on and have exhausted all possibilities except the guage in the VC. I have never done this before so could you tell me where to find this section in the sca file. I am not afraid to explore new ground and appreciate all the help you have given. Thank you.:salute:
 
PJMack said:
:salute:

BearCat,

I have edited the model that I am working on and have exhausted all possibilities except the guage in the VC. I have never done this before so could you tell me where to find this section in the sca file. I am not afraid to explore new ground and appreciate all the help you have given. Thank you.:salute:
Click to expand...

OK, so you've covered everything else but the VC panel tip i mentioned before. Do the Alphasim blank panel test as i recommended. If the bird checks out without any more CTD's with the Alphasim blank then we can be 100% certain that the problem lies somewhere within the FS panel setup. With that done, post an attachment of your original FS panel.cfg and i may be able to tell you what to modify.
 
bearcat241 said:
The gurus have spoken...all excellent replies IMHO. But to narrow it down, if the model loads and flies in FF as single player, then CTD's on exit, its gonna be a panel gauge problem in VC. If it CTD's in QC with wingmen flying the same model, its the lightstates. As for possibly having an oversized mdl, if that's the case, it won't even load when selected from the aircraft selection window -- the sim will hang or CTD the moment you select the model. And finally, as B24 said, if it CTD's when it crashes or collides with other planes, its still got its original FS crash check flag in the mdl file.

Going back to the gauge probability, the best way to test is to replace the entire panel outfit with a blank panel config from one of the old freeware Alphasim products. Their early CFS2 freeware releases all came with a blank panel setup that had no graphical 2D panel and no gauges in the VC or 3D panel. By replacing the current FS9 panel outfit with this and flying about 10 sessions or so, you'll know for certain.
Click to expand...


Bear,

Are you referring to the vc panel integrated in the mdl? If so I don't know how to find or replace. Any help is.\, as usual, appreciated.:wavey:
 
PJMack said:
Bear,

Are you referring to the vc panel integrated in the mdl? If so I don't know how to find or replace. Any help is.\, as usual, appreciated.:wavey:
Click to expand...

Re-read my tip PJ...replace the entire contents of the original panel folder, i.e. panel.cfg and any bmps, with the contents from any original Alphasim model that came with a blank.bmp in its panel folder. Many of the early Alpha CFS2 payware-to-freeware releases came with incomplete panels that used a blank.bmp that eliminated all 2D panel graphics and gauges, causing the user to see only the open sky in 2D view with no panel. This setup also omitted any VC gauges, so in 3D view you can see all of the cockpit as drawn in the mdl, but no gauges. By using this blank setup as a test bed you eliminate any FS gauges that might be the possible cause. Its a very simple experiment simple...nothing to do with going into the mdl or scasm or whatever.

If you can do this and it checks out with no CTD's, then just post the FS panel.cfg in an attachment...i'll try to sort out the root of the problem from that point.
 
bearcat241 said:
Re-read my tip PJ...replace the entire contents of the original panel folder, i.e. panel.cfg and any bmps, with the contents from any original Alphasim model that came with a blank.bmp in its panel folder. Many of the early Alpha CFS2 payware-to-freeware releases came with incomplete panels that used a blank.bmp that eliminated all 2D panel graphics and gauges, causing the user to see only the open sky in 2D view with no panel. This setup also omitted any VC gauges, so in 3D view you can see all of the cockpit as drawn in the mdl, but no gauges. By using this blank setup as a test bed you eliminate any FS gauges that might be the possible cause. Its a very simple experiment simple...nothing to do with going into the mdl or scasm or whatever.

If you can do this and it checks out with no CTD's, then just post the FS panel.cfg in an attachment...i'll try to sort out the root of the problem from that point.
Click to expand...


Bearcat,

I found the alphasim panel with the blank bitmap, loaded it into the fs9 model and still had a crash to desktop. It must be something else. Thanks for trying.
 
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