Navy SEALs Found Not Guilty of Assaulting a Suspected Terrorist

[Roadburner440]

I will keep political views out as well... I am glad they were found not guilty. I give those guys major kudos as they do the hard job in the Navy, and they sacrifice more than any of us sailors in the regular fleet could ever imagine. It is ashame that people are putting their nose where it doesn't belong, and I am glad the court martial saw past whatever "evidence" was presented and aquitted them all...

 

[TARPSBird]

I wanna know what happens to this Demartino fellow? He testified that he saw McCabe punch Abed, then McCabe is acquitted.

Demartino was a weak prosecution witness. He changed his story several times even before the trials commenced, and there were defense witnesses that refuted his description of what happened. I doubt that he will face any charges regarding his testimony or dereliction of duty while the prisoner was in his custody. It would make the Navy legal system look vindictive, trying to prosecute somebody in lieu of getting convictions on the SEALs. They've already received enough bad press carrying out the shameful proceedings just concluded.

 

[djscoo]

Demartino was a weak prosecution witness. He changed his story several times even before the trials commenced, and there were defense witnesses that refuted his description of what happened. I doubt that he will face any charges regarding his testimony or dereliction of duty while the prisoner was in his custody. It would make the Navy legal system look vindictive, trying to prosecute somebody in lieu of getting convictions on the SEALs. They've already received enough bad press carrying out the shameful proceedings just concluded.

I don't really get why everyone is saying these trials are shameful, and should have never been carried out. From what I understand, a prisoner complained of abuse and a sailor corroborated his story. Isn't the Navy just doing it's job by investigating and bringing charges against these sailors?

 

[TARPSBird]

Investigating the alleged abuse is one thing, that's a prudent thing to do to avoid later charges of a cover-up. The shameful part comes in when the Navy decided to press on with charges against the SEALs in spite of the contradicting testimony and the fact that the scumbag terrorist never even saw who hit him (if he was even hit at all which I doubt). In my opinion the whole series of trials was designed to placate our Muslim "friends and allies" by showing them that we will even hang our own troops out to dry, to compensate for the Abu Ghraib incident. This is pretty much all I have to say on the topic. I'm glad the SEALs were acquitted, it was the right outcome, and maybe this thread has run its course.

 

[jmig]

I don't really get why everyone is saying these trials are shameful, and should have never been carried out. From what I understand, a prisoner complained of abuse and a sailor corroborated his story. Isn't the Navy just doing it's job by investigating and bringing charges against these sailors?

Your questions are legitimate and deserve answers. I am not sure my answer is equal to your question but, I will try and paint a word picture which, will hopefully, allow you to see the situation through my eyes.

Imagine you live in a town where a gang has taken over. Imagine it is an old western town where the law out side of the local sheriff is far away. This gang rides into town and bullies everyone who gets in their way. The Sheriff is out manned and out gunned, he is unable to stop them.

Now, I want you to imagine this scene. One of the gang members takes a liking to your 16 yr old sister. She flaunts his advances and, he grabs and rapes her. Your father tries to stop him and is shot and murdered by another member of the gang. Your mother is taken prisioner by them to their hideout. The only reason you weren't killed is because you were off somewhere else when this happened.

You decide to do what the sheriff can't do. You get together with your friends and you guys go to the hideout and in a shoot out you kill all but the guy who raped your sister. Your mother is missing from the hideout. They either moved her or killed her. You take him to the jail and start to question him on the where a bouts of your mother.

He snarls at you, spits in your face and tells you awful things about your sister and how good she was. You hit him.

Just at that time the impotent Sheriff walks in, see you hit the man and, he arrests you for hitting a prisoner.

That is what happened, to a degree, to the Navy SEALS. They deal with the scum of the scum. Sometimes in trying to extract information that may save lives of Americans and their allies they may get emotional. They may even cross the line and hit or slap someone. Which is wrong.

However, those of us who have served in the military understand the difference between a mass murderer and an honorable man who loses his temper. You DON"T treat one like the other. In our opinion this is what the Navy did.

(I personally believe that every JAG should be forced to serve a year in as a line officer before being allowed to be a JAG.)

I suggest you read the Lone Survivor by Marcus Luttrell, (he is a fellow Texan) if you want to see what SEALS deal with day in and day out. If you will actually read it, PM me with your address and I will mail my copy to you. You will learn about men who have character to spare.

 

[Snuffy]

I don't really get why everyone is saying these trials are shameful, and should have never been carried out. From what I understand, a prisoner complained of abuse and a sailor corroborated his story. Isn't the Navy just doing it's job by investigating and bringing charges against these sailors?

I should probably stay out of this (other than what I've already said, but ... ) here goes nothing.

The situation here is different than it is in "conventional warfare" I feel. (NOTE: personal opinion here!)
During "conventional warfare," more often than not both sides agree to and abide "somewhat" by the Geneva Convention Laws as established by recognized world organizations, which affords certain "rights" to the participants of both aggressive forces in particular situations, as long as they both abide by those laws.

In this particular case where you have "a known group of aggressors" (read terrorists,) who do not abide by the civilized constructs of warfare, (i.e. abide by and recognize the Geneva Convention as a moderating structure of law, nor the institutions that establish that law,) and pretty much manhandle, abuse, and violate all aspects of anyone who is unfortunate enough to fall into their hands, then by the laws of physical fairness, these individuals themselves, do not deserve any better treatment than what they met out. (Again Personal Opinion.)

The two factions of lawlessness, and lawful obedience, can not coexist. One or the other have to dictate outcome, in essence what is happening is that a lawless individual is using the terms of our law abiding society against us, while perpetuating his own lawlessness.

As so ... a "whats good for the goose is good for the gander" analogy applies in some people's minds, which is why some here cried foul and why some here are "jubilant" at the outcome of these "trials", and is also why some here say this never should have happened to start with.

I'll quit now because the remaining explanation will by reason of the nature of the beast require one get political, more so than has already happened.

 

[djscoo]

...

I think I understand better now. I knew the accuser was a dirtbag, but I just wasn't sure (and I guess neither were the prosecutors) what the context of this incident was.
Thanks for the offer, I actually already have a copy of The Lone Survivor, I just haven't gotten around to reading it yet.

 

[Ken Stallings]

I am Blackwater Alumni, been to a few places few can pronounce the name of. The company and it's employees have received a lot of bad press and it's seems they are the target of an unrelenting group of self appointed do-gooders and prosecutors. Although there were strict ROE's placed on these types of personnel(not just Blackwater but also TC, and numerous other companies holding DOS Contracts), these folks often got caught between a rock and a hard place being engaged by insurgents and even uniformed Iraqi Army. In such a case, they have the right to engage, hold/defend, respond to assist. Sadly, you hear little or nothing about how many lives these guys have saved both VIP, Military and Civilians. All we hear about is Nisoor Square Incident which was a total lie. No one ever hears the fact that the FBI and Independent Ballistic Laboratories could not match any of the Bullets the Iraqi Government supplied that they claimed came from the victims bodies with the Blackwater Guards Rifles. The Convoy was attacked and they returned fire but the civilians were not killed by Blackwater Personnel. That's the main reason the case fell apart and will never be reinstated. Like this case against the SEAL's which should never have been brought in the first place. Now that the smoke has cleared and the mirrors broken, let the truth shine a little.

I'm very happy you posted this and very happy to also have the chance to reply as I think is proper. I am happy you folks did the work you did. A lot of State Department employees and contractors who were trying to build infrastructure in Iraq were protected by you folks during the worst of the war. Unfortunately, there are just a few too many well organized and financed political organizations with an ax to grind and for them falsifying information and focusing upon uncorroborated reports that fit their desires is just another day at the office.

Then, when the actual facts come out, these same organization that passed along cooked up information suddenly don't find the story worthy of their interest. I've seen this time and again. Millions of people have seen this themselves and voted by changing the channel and cancelling their subscriptions.

The most powerful argument against these organizations is that by trying to portray a group of people as evil, when one of the supposedly evil people come along and we know him, suddenly we realize folks like you are normal people who were ordered into extraordinary situations most folks cannot understand. More central to the controversy, is that most folks don't have to perform a job under a microscope of a handful of people who hope they fail and do whatever they can to help ensure they do!

Ken

 

[Ken Stallings]

I don't really get why everyone is saying these trials are shameful, and should have never been carried out. From what I understand, a prisoner complained of abuse and a sailor corroborated his story. Isn't the Navy just doing it's job by investigating and bringing charges against these sailors?

Because the situation these soldiers operate under is not a nice, peaceful street in America where a few police officers have the support of millions of honest, law abiding people, and have to worry about a very few criminals.

When the odds are stacked in the favor of civilization and peace, then you can play by the rules of investigation because when a single cop is taken off the street for a few weeks, there are plenty of other cops able to perform the job against the handful of criminals.

In a war zone, the streets are filled with men with a purpose to kill you. Passions can get a little high. Moreover, one must accept that our enemy are not interested in fairness. They are taught to lie and have friendly media to repeat anything they say, true or not.

In war, you simply never allow your enemy to control the agenda. The navy unfortunately allowed this insurgent to control the agenda. Ultimately, also, folks have to appreciate the vast difference between a cop patrolling his street and a soldier in a war zone.

Cheers,

Ken

 

[Ken Stallings]

I think I understand better now. I knew the accuser was a dirtbag, but I just wasn't sure (and I guess neither were the prosecutors) what the context of this incident was.
Thanks for the offer, I actually already have a copy of The Lone Survivor, I just haven't gotten around to reading it yet.

I cannot think of a better book for someone to gain an understanding of what I spoke of earlier. That's a good book and I am very glad you sought to read it.

Cheers,

Ken

 

[Ken Stallings]

I think I understand better now. I knew the accuser was a dirtbag, but I just wasn't sure (and I guess neither were the prosecutors) what the context of this incident was.
Thanks for the offer, I actually already have a copy of The Lone Survivor, I just haven't gotten around to reading it yet.

I cannot think of a better book for someone to gain an understanding of what I spoke of earlier. That's a good book and I am very glad you sought to read it.

Cheers,

Ken

 

[deathfromafar]

I'm very happy you posted this and very happy to also have the chance to reply as I think is proper. I am happy you folks did the work you did. A lot of State Department employees and contractors who were trying to build infrastructure in Iraq were protected by you folks during the worst of the war. Unfortunately, there are just a few too many well organized and financed political organizations with an ax to grind and for them falsifying information and focusing upon uncorroborated reports that fit their desires is just another day at the office.

Then, when the actual facts come out, these same organization that passed along cooked up information suddenly don't find the story worthy of their interest. I've seen this time and again. Millions of people have seen this themselves and voted by changing the channel and cancelling their subscriptions.

The most powerful argument against these organizations is that by trying to portray a group of people as evil, when one of the supposedly evil people come along and we know him, suddenly we realize folks like you are normal people who were ordered into extraordinary situations most folks cannot understand. More central to the controversy, is that most folks don't have to perform a job under a microscope of a handful of people who hope they fail and do whatever they can to help ensure they do!

Ken

Spot on Ken.

Many don't know the names of the 4 Blackwater Members who were killed and had their charred bodies hanged from that bridge in Fallujah. Scott Helvenston(The Youngest Navy SEAL in the Team's History) Jerry Zovko, Wesley Batalona and Michael Teague. All Former/Retired US Military Veterans, who's ill fated Mission to Fallujah that day was to provide security for Food & Aid to be shipped to inhabitants of the battle torn city.

I'm glad it was a SEAL Team who captured the animal who killed, mutilated, and burned our people. The SEAL's did a professional job and captured him alive to stand trail for murder and personally I hope he is convicted and sentenced to Death. Such judicial process and fate is more dignified than what he did to the men he murdered and desecrated.