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  • Please see the most recent updates in the "Where did the .com name go?" thread. Posts number 16 and 17.

    Post 16 Update

    Post 17 Warning

RN carrier trainers?

vora

vora

Charter Member
Just a question since I couldn't find anything on the net:
Did the Royal Navy have dedicated jet training aircraft for their CVs like the Ark Royal (R09)?
That carrier had the Scimitar and Sea Vixen, later the Phantom and Bucchaneer on board.
I just couldn't find any trainers like the Goshawk or the Zephyr. So how did the FAA jet jockeys learn to land on the carriers?

Thx,
Volker
 
I am by no means an expert on FAA equipment or history, but I was under the assumption that the Royal Navy used a Hawker Hunter T8 for training purposes?
 
Yeah we used the 2 seater Hunter then when you were qualified and passed a lot of exams that was it, pat on the back and your on your own for your first catapult assisted takeoff and arrested landing!
 
Yeah, the RN never had a jet trainer for carrier landings, I'm not sure they ever had a prop one either. Nor did they have twin stick versions of their jets so basically after a few practices ashore (possibly using the catapult at Boscombe Down until it was too weak to do the job on the later jets) and then away you go. The T.8 Harrier didn't actually get used for deck landing training either so generally pilots first Sea Harrier landing at sea was also solo.
 
Thanks for the answers. That explains the lack of info...

Tough school :salute:



Thanks,
Volker
(patiently waiting for the Bucchaneer and Etendart) ;)
 
A mere 30 Rolls-Royce Merlin-powered Boulton-Paul Sea Balliol T21 (a terrestrial Balliol with folding wings and a tail hook added, logically enough!) were used during the 1950s for deck landing training. Come the '60s I believe the jets started getting really fast and the T21 was of less utility.

A Sea Balliol is extant at RAFM Cosford.

HTH? AQLMK

Andy
 
The strange thing is I've never seen pictures of the Sea Balliol being used for deck landing training, although I do remember reading about it in an aircraft modeling magazine years ago, again they didn't provide any details of it's use for DLT. Obviously what would be useful at this stage would be finding one of my books on FAA aircraft but they're currently in a box somewhere as I haven't quite finished moving in...
Interestingly they were due to be turbo-props but as there were quite a few Merlins lying around spare it never happened, I don't think there's a Balliol left extant, hence Cosford having the Sea B.
 
SkippyBing said:
The strange thing is I've never seen pictures of the Sea Balliol being used for deck landing training
Click to expand...

Now you mention it, neither have I! Anyone popping into FAAM in the near future...??!

I have no idea which carrier(s) were used either, although the current USN model of which-ever-is-in-the-neighbourhood might have been in force.

IMHO the T21 would make an excellent model for FSX... ;) We're all busy though eh?!

Andy
 
I know Victorious was designated a training carrier for a while before her big refit, but I don't know if that was just to indicate that she was to be used for squadron work ups etc. or a more widespread training role.
 
A test pilot the most famous in Britain and anywhere actually developed the constant angle constant power approach which has been used ever since, one you cracked this on land you could do it anywhere so obviously practacing at various weights and in different conditions was done on land then you were on your own to do it on the ship. His name was Captain Eric Brown world record holder for carrier landings over 2500 times and also the world record holder for types flown with over 450 aircraft types flown including the german komet, arado blitz and he177 some very rare types! He also shot down quite a few during the war including 2 fw condors!
 
peter12213 said:
Yeah we used the 2 seater Hunter then when you were qualified and passed a lot of exams that was it, pat on the back and your on your own for your first catapult assisted takeoff and arrested landing!
Click to expand...

I don't know if the RN FAA had FCLP at its training fields, but I'm assuming that's the extent of the "arrested" landings that pilots did in the T8 Hunter - it was never stressed for carrier landings.

dl
 
delta_lima said:
I don't know if the RN FAA had FCLP at its training fields, but I'm assuming that's the extent of the "arrested" landings that pilots did in the T8 Hunter - it was never stressed for carrier landings.

dl
Click to expand...

No most definately not stressed in anyway shape or form, as soon as fast jet conversion on the hunter was done it was in the aircraft you were actually to fly that you did your first arrested landings and assisted take offs, so it would be sea venoms, sea vixens, phantoms etc!
 
peter12213 said:
No most definately not stressed in anyway shape or form, as soon as fast jet conversion on the hunter was done it was in the aircraft you were actually to fly that you did your first arrested landings and assisted take offs, so it would be sea venoms, sea vixens, phantoms etc!
Click to expand...

Ah - I see - you meant that all along. I didn't think Hunters landed on carriers, arrestor hooks notwithstanding.

:ernae:

dl
 
delta_lima said:
I don't know if the RN FAA had FCLP at its training fields
Click to expand...

Well that is an interesting one... in the '60s-'70s era there were certainly mobile mirror and projector sights (mounted on old bomb trolleys) used at RNAS such as Lossiemouth and Yeovilton, so pilots could practice "shooting" approaches (flying the ball)... But as to whether there were associated arrestor cables also installed (as distinct from the emergency type fitted at a lot of airfields, RAF and RN) for proper FCLP I'd really like to know...!

Earlier (in the '50s) I believe full FCLP was undertaken at RNAS Henstridge, Somerset, where there was a dummy deck in use. This seems to have coincided with the Sea Balliol squadron service (although it continued with 727 NAS, various station flights and at the RN Test Sqn at Boscombe Down for much longer).
 
Ito's Balliol - works for FSX?

Won't be at the fsx pc for a couple of days - anyone know if this little gem works in FSX?

I'm curious about the prop. Otherwise, other Ito planes have worked well (FJ-1, for example).

This would be a real treat - pity there are no RN repaints for it, but stock would do if it works fine otherwise ... Anyone able to fire her up?

Thanks for checking!

dl
 
I was not in the RN but I was in the RAF in the 50's and early 60's. When I was stationed at RAF Seletar in Singapore the carrier HMS Albion was on duty in the far east and between cruises she would return to the dockyard at Singapore for refit. Before docking she would fly off her aircraft, Seahawks, Sea Venoms and Douglas Skyraider with fat radar bellies and they would lodge with us until the Albion was ready for sea.
During this time they carried out deck landing training on our runway. There was no catapult of course so take-offs were normal but to simulate arrester landings two lengths of heavy anchor chain were laid out along each side of the approach runway connected by a raised wire at the threshold end. When the hook caught the wire (and it didn't always !) the chains would be dragged along, the weight of the chains increasing rapidly as the aircraft pulled more and more links behind it. This resulted in very short landing runs, approximately equal to the amount of deck available for landing on a carrier.

As a postscript to this: The Albion always returned from a cruise with a lot less aircraft that it sailed with. When we asked the sailors what had happened to them they just said "over the side"
 
Great story! Thanks Bob!

Yet another reason to see if Ito's Balliol can work in FSX. Will try on the weekend - just wondering if anyone's been down that road already ...

dl
 
Re Mr Ito's Sea Balliol unfortunately while it will work in FSX like his other prop Naval aircraft has prop problems in as much as it is not transparent against a lot of backgrounds same as the Barracuda, Roc and Gannets.
 
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