• There seems to be an up tick in Political commentary in recent months. Those of us who are long time members of the site we know that Political and Religious content has been banned for years. Nothing has changed. Please leave all political and religiours commentary out of the fourms.

    If you recently joined the forums you were not presented with this restriction in the terms of service. This was due to a conversion error when we went from vBulletin to Xenforo. We have updated our terms of service to reflect these corrections.

    Please note any post refering to a politicion will be considered political even if it is intended to be humor. Our experience is these topics have a way of dividing the forums and causing deep resentment amoung members. It is a poison to the community. We apprciate compliance with the rules.

    The Staff of SOH

  • Server side Maintenance is done. We still have an update to the forum software to run but that one will have to wait for a better time.

Today is....

Of course, it's good that the war ended when it did. Too bad we were forced to use such weapons to convince the Japanese -

:running:
 
Pity we don't use the same weapons today to convince the extremists Muslims.

And I hear there is a contingent from the US attending the rite in Japan and apologizing for the bomb.

I wonder how people from Helldiver's generation feel about that. How quick we all forget.

Caz
 
Controversial and horrible though the A-bombs were, if you're a student of the Pacific War, I think it's pretty clear that they were the only way that the war was going to end without a full-scale invasion of the Japanese home islands. This would have led to orders of magnitude more casualties on both sides (military and civilian) than the bombs themselves caused. Lesser of two evils.

We can only hope that atomic/nuclear weapons will never be used again. Nowadays, there are so many of them around that escalation of their use would be an unmitigated disaster for life as we know it. The Hiroshima/Nagasaki weapons were just 'firecrackers' compared to the warheads we have today.

No apologies owed to the Japanese, IMHO for their use in 1945. We had no other viable option. Non-use would have been much worse for all concerned.
 
Ghostrider said:
Controversial and horrible though the A-bombs were, if you're a student of the Pacific War, I think it's pretty clear that they were the only way that the war was going to end without a full-scale invasion of the Japanese home islands. This would have led to orders of magnitude more casualties on both sides (military and civilian) than the bombs themselves caused. Lesser of two evils.

We can only hope that atomic/nuclear weapons will never be used again. Nowadays, there are so many of them around that escalation of their use would be an unmitigated disaster for life as we know it. The Hiroshima/Nagasaki weapons were just 'firecrackers' compared to the warheads we have today.

No apologies owed to the Japanese, IMHO for their use in 1945. We had no other viable option. Non-use would have been much worse for all concerned.
Click to expand...

My dad was one of those who was going to invade Japan. Who knows what would have happened to him?

People forget that Truman shortened the war considerably by using those two weapons. The military, who actually ruled Japan at the time would have have capitulated otherwise.
 
I have an insider's view to this as....

Ghostrider said:
Controversial and horrible though the A-bombs were, if you're a student of the Pacific War, I think it's pretty clear that they were the only way that the war was going to end without a full-scale invasion of the Japanese home islands. This would have led to orders of magnitude more casualties on both sides (military and civilian) than the bombs themselves caused. Lesser of two evils.

We can only hope that atomic/nuclear weapons will never be used again. Nowadays, there are so many of them around that escalation of their use would be an unmitigated disaster for life as we know it. The Hiroshima/Nagasaki weapons were just 'firecrackers' compared to the warheads we have today.

No apologies owed to the Japanese, IMHO for their use in 1945. We had no other viable option. Non-use would have been much worse for all concerned.
Click to expand...

My dad was part of the South Pcaific "Invasion" task force (USS Catron, PA-71 Assault ship). He was on the beach at Okinawa slugging it out. He truly felt he (and tens of thousands more US Military) would not have made it to see the final defeat of the Japanese empire if we hadn't dropped the bomb (and agreed to give immunity to the emporer). Like most people who go through horrendous battles, he doesn't talk too much about it, but when he does, it is very sobering. Here's to you, dad.....
 
"...in [July] 1945... Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. ...the Secretary, upon giving me the news of the successful bomb test in New Mexico, and of the plan for using it, asked for my reaction, apparently expecting a vigorous assent.
"During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of 'face'. The Secretary was deeply perturbed by my attitude..."
- Dwight Eisenhower, Mandate For Change, pg. 380
Click to expand...

But then again, what would a second hand two-bit general know about that :kilroy:

Jen
 
Please, Please, Please keep this civil!
It happened and ended the war. This saved millions of lives. We all know the story, keep your negative comments to yourself. :salute:
I am watching this and I will drop the atomic ickie stuff on anyone who tries to hijack this thread! (atomic ickie stuff = nuke your membership)
 
My dad would have been there for the invasion also,on board the USS Phoenix CL-46.I can't fathom what it was like being on the ground at Okinawa,what bravery.I'm not half the man any one of them were.:USA-flag:

Thanks Ickie.
 
safn1949 said:
My dad would have been there for the invasion also,on board the USS Phoenix CL-46.I can't fathom what it was like being on the ground at Okinawa,what bravery.I'm not half the man any one of them were.:USA-flag:

Thanks Ickie.
Click to expand...



Oh yes you are! Just like any of us here. The difference between them (your dad and mine) and us is that they were forced into circumstances where they had to prove a certain amount of steel in their spine and a fire in their hearts during some very dangerous times for our countries.
 
I fear the Atomic Ickie more than anything!:wavey:

I will remind folks of something I've pointed out on in this Forum before. The United States made a contract in 1945 to produce Purple Hearts specifically in anticipation of the initial invasion of Japan (OLYMPIC). This was the intitial invasion in Operation Downfall, the total invasion and occupation of Japan. Throughout the Korean War, all through Viet Nam, and through Grenada, El Salvador, Panama, and Desert Storm...the U.S. distributed these Purple Hearts. It wasn't until the mid-1990s that the U.S. military needed to order more Purple Hearts.

You can draw your own conclusions.
 
Not just Ickie is watching this. It's been marked in the staff forum to keep an eye on.
 
My Dad was a medic in North Africa and Italy. When the war in Europe ended, his unit was put on a ship for the return trip home. Only problem was, they were placed on the wrong ship by accident. The ship they were on was going to the Philippines, to prepare for the invasion of Japan. "Sorry boys" they were told, "you're comng with us now." :icon_eek: They were half way across the Pacific when the war ended, but continued on to the Philippines. His unit spent a bried period of time in Japan after the war. He saw what was left of Nagasaki first hand. So, pretty good odds I and a lot of people wouldn't be here today but for that descion.
 
TeaSea said:
I fear the Atomic Ickie more than anything!:wavey:

I will remind folks of something I've pointed out on in this Forum before. The United States made a contract in 1945 to produce Purple Hearts specifically in anticipation of the initial invasion of Japan (OLYMPIC). This was the intitial invasion in Operation Downfall, the total invasion and occupation of Japan. Throughout the Korean War, all through Viet Nam, and through Grenada, El Salvador, Panama, and Desert Storm...the U.S. distributed these Purple Hearts. It wasn't until the mid-1990s that the U.S. military needed to order more Purple Hearts.

You can draw your own conclusions.
Click to expand...

Very interesting about the contract for the Purple Hearts. Thanks for posting.
 
I guess I have read every book pro and con about the use of atomic weapons to end the war! I lived in Japan for quite a while and have tremendous respect for the Japanese people. Most of those in the Japanese military, that I knew, agreed that the Bushido code of conduct (still in use today but modified) would not allow unconditional surrender except under the most extreme measures. The loss of face would be unendurable. Had the emperor been in total control of Japan at that time, Japan might have surrendered-but he may have been assassinated for doing so. The Army and Navy were running Japan's policies and bickering bitterly with emperor about what unconditional surrender would bring to Japan's future. It was a given that every man, woman, and child were ordered to give their lives if need be to stop the American invasion of Japan.

The horror of what Hiroshima and Nagasaki experienced convinced the leadership of all branches that a weapon had truly been developed that could not be matched by anything currently in the Japanese arsenal, not even Sarin poisoning which had been delivered by the Nazis to Japan which had been planned for delivery to the west coast of America by submarine and other means. The delivery means for poisoning of America would be too demanding and the "city killer" used by the Americans was easily deliverable and had far reaching terrible consequences when you consider radioactive poisoning. Even the horrible firestorms caused by the B-29s did not deter Japanese defense plans for the homeland. The Army believed that some of the newly acquired weaponry they had developed would be able to stop the delivery of bombs to Japan in the very near future. The atomic bomb proved to be too devastating to wait for the mass production of those defensive weapons.

The one area of agreement where there is no doubt is that losses to Japan and the American allies would have been astronomical if an invasion had occurred.
Ted
 
If the A bomb had not been used in '45, the toll of continuous incendiary bombardments and invasion warfare would've been indeed immense for the Japanese population, much greater than the two atomic bombs. They saved a lot of lives and not only in the Allied forces.

It would've been anyway obviously used against North Korea or concentrations of Chinese troops in the early 50's. I doubt that Truman would 've said no to Mc Arthur without the Hiroshima-Nagazaki precedent.

Let's also remember that the kind of taboo attached to nuclear weapons was born of its use in August, 1945. This taboo generated deterrence which has preserved the world of an all out "classic" war in Europe in 50's/60s ("peace is our profession"). Thanks to Hiroshima and Nagazaki there were no WW3. So far.
 
If the Japanese had acquired the atomic capability before the U.S., they would have surely nuked us first. They were immensly brutal opponents, and wouldn't have been bothered one bit to level and radiate the entire U.S.A . A nation that would use it's own citizens as suicide pilots, would place no value on the life of the citizens in the country they are at war with. The Japanese did some pretty horrible things to the Chinese civilians on a very wide scale, and still won't say they're sorry. Why should we apologize? They started it.
 
....Many of the Japanese civilians were issued 'home defense' weapons. Even youngsters were given sticks to be used as weapons. Let's not forget the fanatical IJA army nut jobs who's final mission was to prevent the Emperor Hirohito from broadcasting (via record recording) a proclamation of Japanese defeat and surrender.
Thank Heavens for Harry S. Truman to have the wisdom and courage to authorize the use of the atomic bombs.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top