Libyan Mirage F-1's defect to Malta

[centuryseries]

I noticed that too!

I believe if my memory serves me that the Libyans have been repainting their aircraft. I can't remember where I read that, or when but sometime recently over the last 6 months.

 

[Allen]

<DL><DT>

Libya</DT></DL>

• Libyan Air Force received 16 F1AD, 16 F1ED & 6 F1DD aircraft. All were grounded currently but some (12) refurbished and returned back to service.<SUP id=cite_ref-34 class=reference>[35]</SUP> Of these 12, two have defected to Malta.<SUP id=cite_ref-35 class=reference>[36]</SUP>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_F1#Current_operators

 

[W. Bleddyn]

While not wishing to sstart a heated debate, I've always seen defectors as being traitors. Afterall the role of the military is to execute the orders of the country's leader, as such 'not being paid to think'.

That has only been the role of the military in the distant past, or in totalitarian regimes. In the modern world soldiers/sailors/airmen are expected to think on their feet, and be well educated on their role and the situation.

As for following orders blindly, that is a myth. It is a case of "respondeat superior" (the formal legal term, which is Latin for "Let the Master Answer") more commonly known as Command Responsibility. What that means is, you claim you were just following orders. That is no longer a valid defence legally. If you carry out an unethical order you are criminally liable. This was entered into international law at the Nuremburg trials.

Those pilots did the right thing ethically, and legally.

 

[Trans_23]

In this circumstance, I would much rather have a couple "traitors" than non-thinking robots willing to bomb their own people just because some dictator desperate to remain in power tells them to.

"We follow orders son. We follow orders, or people die. It's that simple. Are we clear?":salute:

 

[Bjoern]

Rocket pods.

In the blurry news windows, they looked like tanks.

While not wishing to sstart a heated debate, I've always seen defectors as being traitors. Afterall the role of the military is to execute the orders of the country's leader, as such 'not being paid to think'.

The Bundeswehr has a clause that lets you get away with refusing to follow your CO's orders should they be something along the lines of "Shoot those civilians!".

Also, I was sworn in to serve the people and not some coming and going leaders.

 

[kilo delta]

I've read some reports that the Mirages were also carrying bombs which were either jettisoned or dropped on Libyan targets prior to the aircraft heading to Malta.

 

[deathfromafar]

I'm not sure what assets are in the area but word is a temporary No-Fly-Zone (on Libyan Military Aircraft) with CAP flights is getting ready to go into effect(a rumor out of the Pentagon at this point). Aviano is over 900+ nautical miles North away from Libyan shores so I'd bet the CBG in the region is being repositioned. All this unrest in the area plus the Iranian warships transiting Suez could end up being interesting to keep an eye on.

 

[kilo delta]

Some reports of Libyan naval assets transiting towards Malta too...possibly defecting.

 

[fsafranek]

The Mirage F1 isn't plumbed for fuel on the outer pylons. Those are Matra SNEB rocket pods (68mm). And definitely armed, fins are clearly visible. If they weren't and the front air flow caps weren't in place you could look right down the open tubes. Don't know about bombs but the flight log would verify that. I'd certainly get rid of them to conserve fuel.

My understanding is that they flew from their normal base to another where they were armed and fueled and got their orders. Once they had their orders these two pilots obviously decided they didn't sign on for that type mission and flew under the radar towards Malta, about 200 miles away and well within the range on internal fuel alone (perhaps not at sea level though). So the low on fuel declaration may or may not have been true. Declaring an emergency does get you number one position though and does indicate that you aren't there as an aggressor. So now Malta has a fighter component to their air force (for a while anyway). :salute:

Despite the whole situation around this flight I just think it's awesome to see a couple freshly refurbished Mirage F1ED's still flying.
:ernae:

 

[Bjoern]

My understanding is that they flew from their normal base to another where they were armed and fueled and got their orders. Once they had their orders these two pilots obviously decided they didn't sign on for that type mission and flew under the radar towards Malta, about 200 miles away and well within the range on internal fuel alone (perhaps not at sea level though). So the low on fuel declaration may or may not have been true. Declaring an emergency does get you number one position though and does indicate that you aren't there as an aggressor.

That's what they did.



Anyways, Al Jazeera has it that a further libyan AF jet is unavailable for attacks on demonstrants, since the crew preferred to punch out instead of carrying out their assigned mission.

 

[kilo delta]

That's what they did.



Anyways, Al Jazeera has it that a further libyan AF jet is unavailable for attacks on demonstrants, since the crew preferred to punch out instead of carrying out their assigned mission.

Cue Gaddafi ordering that ejection seat pins be left in place for future ops!

 

[TARPSBird]

Wow, I commend them for not attacking their own people but punching out is pretty extreme. I wonder at what point in the ejection sequence they realized it would have been better to stay in the plane and fly it to a friendly field. :d

 

[Allen]

Well if the pilot puches out, his plane will never be used by ANY sides to attack civs.

 

[kilo delta]

Well if the pilot puches out, his plane will never be used by ANY sides to attack civs.

True...but there are other,less extreme, ways of disabling an aircraft

:d

 

[alain95]

End of flight...

Cue Gaddafi ordering that ejection seat pins be left in place for future ops!

Now this is Kadahfi who is sitted on a ejection seat !

View attachment 32230

 

[hae5904]

The Bundeswehr has a clause that lets you get away with refusing to follow your CO's orders should they be something along the lines of "Shoot those civilians!".

Also, I was sworn in to serve the people and not some coming and going leaders.

Same as when I was in the service (for 23 yrs). Though the clause was simply known as the Geneva Conventions.

Bombing your own civilians is a act of murder, not an act of war.

Cheers.

 

[Bjoern]

Cue Gaddafi ordering that ejection seat pins be left in place for future ops!

He's losing grip day by day, so he has more important stuff on his mind.

Wow, I commend them for not attacking their own people but punching out is pretty extreme. I wonder at what point in the ejection sequence they realized it would have been better to stay in the plane and fly it to a friendly field. :d

If I was the loyal part of the Libyan AF, I wouldn't allow anyone to defect anymore and rather shoot him down.
Just sayin'.

Bombing your own civilians is a act of murder, not an act of war.

True.

 

[Stratobat]

If I was the loyal part of the Libyan AF, I wouldn't allow anyone to defect anymore and rather shoot him down.
Just sayin'.

Problem with shooting down defectors is that by the time you realise they're defecting, they're already gone :

Regards,
Stratobat

 

[Allen]

Give that the planes in Q were only armed for Air to Ground. I bet even if they know that there were defecting it may have done them no good. I know theres the MG but I would Q there skill at that.

 

[Bjoern]

Problem with shooting down defectors is that by the time you realise they're defecting, they're already gone :

True for cities close to neighbouring countries, but place them a bit further inland and you could get an idea about the intention early enough to alert coastal SAM batteries or other interceptors.