CV-32 Leyte - beta textures?

[delta_lima]

Hey - now it's looking "woody" ... very nice!

dl

 

[Helldiver]

U.S.S. Leyte CV-32

You got me out of my retirement with the subject of the USS Leyte. Having spent a year and a half on board her with the Aircraft Group, I have some pictures. But there all of SB2C, TBF, F6F and F8Fs. No jets. Some show the island in detail.
I was always in admiration of Mike Davies rendering of the Leyte and told him that it was almost like being back on the old ship.
However, who ever did the deck it's too brown. These were teak logs and they quickly turned into a grey weathered surface. Like the shingles on a Cape Cod Cottage. A replacement log would have a light color like fresh cut wood. They were replaced fairly often around the arresting gear from hook and prop strikes etc. On the 5 inch gun mounts the two projections should stand out further They were the eyes of the mount and gave depth or distance perception.
Now if I can only find out where my wife hid my pictures...

 

[Bone]

You got me out of my retirement with the subject of the USS Leyte. ...

Lol. No shame in that.

 

[delta_lima]

On the 5 inch gun mounts the two projections should stand out further They were the eyes of the mount and gave depth or distance perception.

Just so we're clear - and if you read the entire thread, this should be obvious: my post is about textures. I'm already on a bit of a limb requesting someone look at the texturing, and Michael has been clear about the work it would take to do the mapping even for said exercise.

If there's another Essex being developed by another dev - that's who might be able to still make changes around turrets, antennae, etc. As I understand it, this mesh is "pinned" - and in the big picture scheme of things, a very fine job.

dl

 

[gradyhappyg]

View attachment 39286View attachment 39285
I can do faded. Also first attempt to add the tie downs. Needs work!View attachment 39287

 

[gradyhappyg]

View attachment 39289View attachment 39288
The wife is on her way home so this is it for today. Some recoloring of the 20 mil and quads added tie downs and faded the deck color. For those who like the darker brown I will add tie downs and upload both along with the other changes ASAP.

 

[delta_lima]

Looks great - the beam-wise plank is far more convincing than the beta textures.

I hear where HD is coming from - the shot I submitted shows a dullish greyish brown too. The last set look the best so far - and if more colour images emerge, they may shine more light on the subject. I think we should give the artists license to interpret what they choose: do they want to show the ship as launched, nice and new, or more weathered?

Though I prefer weathered surfaces in general, that's a prerogative I'll happily leave to the painter - the point is, they're looking much better.

Huge thanks GH!!!

dl

 

[michael davies]

HD, how the devil are you LOL, regarding the optical sights on the Mk32 5", they should be the correct size I'm afraid, certainly for WWII which is what I have detailed drawings for, I'm at work right now but could find the exact dimension if any one wants it. That doesn't mean that they were not altered later in life, my understanding is that the optics were the same and matched the weapon and firing plotters but they could have been altered later in life, I didn't think they were but will conceed if anyone can show evidence that I can add to my data collection. It may also be a FS optical problem as well, FS doesn't have a world thats optically the same as ours, it tends to distort or compress things when viewed at certain angles, you tend not to notice on planes but very large objects do tend to look odd from certain quarters.

(Addendum) just done a quick web scan and seen some with what looks like enlarged optic housings, could well be different types of shrouds for the optics, as seen here http://www.steelnavy.com/images/2003%20June/twin5dp9956title.JPG , though of note this fitting has different rear access and other detail differences over Essex fitted Mk32, there are two offical Mk32, Mod0 and Mod4 but there may well have been hundreds of unofficial minor mods. More information on 5"/38cal can be found here http://navalhistory.flixco.info/H/74898/8330/a0.htm , nice site as it semi details which mounts went on which vessels etc, though beware, the image they show for the Essex class is clearly not from an Essex carrier!.

The antenna is totally wrong, I already know that, its a late WWII fit but even then probably only suits one or two specific vessels for a small amount of time, the mast area changed almost monthly on vessels and very few are identical if even close, such was the pace of developement and differences in shipyard installations.

I like the reworked deck textures, amazed how you got deck cleats to show on such a tiny swatch, or that they all face the same way and are evenly spaced, must have mapped it just right LOL. The only down side is that all your deck textures might now be wood (cannot recall which bits were mapped where), even those that are ment to be steel. Regarding color, all horizontal surfaces were supposed to be painted a dark grey (sometimes even the tops of turrets or gun mounts too), can't remember the exact shade, but as HD notes, on the main deck it soon got scuffed and the wood showed through a little. Unpainted wooden decks went out very early in WWII and were stained or painted dark blue which was changed to dark grey in the 50s, hence the orignal grey texture. I've got a few B&W photos might have a few color as well, but the deck was never wood even in Korea. If I get chance tomorrow between night shifts I'll dig out my Korean color shots which show the deck color and post them up for y'all to look at.

The model really does need a devoted deck texture, if I get chance over the next week or so I'll try and map one in better detail and send out a modified set of files, no promises as I have a hell of a lot of other stuff that must be done.

Kindest

Michael

 

[fliger747]

On the dual mounts there are two hoods as shown on the port side and one on the starboard. On the single mounts, such as found on destroyers, we had optical units which were normally covered by a flush hinged cover on the front of the mount. Both types of mounts had a gun captain position whict was a small hatch at the top, aft extremity of the mount roof. In most cases these had a hood which was intended to protect the gun captain from nearby blast etc.

T

 

[gradyhappyg]

View attachment 39335View attachment 39334View attachment 39333
Here is what I have so far a new deck on the right to more used look in the middle to the faded unpainted on the left. Problem is when photos were taken most were aimed at the aircraft not the deck and the ones I have seen show a wide variety of both shades and colors so I am mostly guessing. Since these are fairly small files only 35 kb I will upload them all sometime tommorrow and let everyone decide which one they like the best.Also Michael is right about some of the textures showing out of place like in the gun galleries cat walks and hanger deck also show the cleats and wood look textures. Thanks again Micheal for this great boat.:salute:

 

[Helldiver]

View attachment 39341As far as deck textures are concerned there was two USS Leytes. The original WWII deck and then the one that was used for jets. I know absolutely nothing about what kind of deck that was employed for them. Some kind of plastic I believe.
But the deck that I remember looked liked the siding of this Cape Cod Cottage. It's weathered redwood shingle siding and looks the same as the teak decking used on a carrier. With a few oill spots and tire marks for decorations.
The decking was married with overlapping joints. they measured about 8 foot long and were 8 inches square. When one was replaced, two swabbies would race out and using a long handled pick pull out the damaged section, continue across the deck and heave it over the side. In the mean time,View attachment 39340 another couple of men with a new piece of teak, carried in ice tongs, would provide the replacement. This all took place in just seconds.

 

[expat]

When one was replaced, two swabbies would race out and using a long handled pick pull out the damaged section, continue across the deck and heave it over the side. In the mean time, another couple of men with a new piece of teak, carried in ice tongs, would provide the replacement. This all took place in just seconds.

Yet another priceless gem from you HD !! :salute:

 

[delta_lima]

It looks to me that that straight-deck carriers were using wood decks post WWII and into Korea ...

Here's a shot that shows off that greyish colour that HD is talking about ... Robert A. Carey, AF2, aboard USS Leyte, 1952

You can clearly see the planks on the very bottom of this shot ... indeed, looks like about 8" wide.

Similar shot, Banshee coming aboard...

En route to the barrier ....

More weathered planking ....

Hope this helps ...

dl

ps: (OT for HD)

1) HD, you're ok? Heard about the nasty storms that hit Mass ....
2) Check the bottom of this link: http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/32.htm Remember how you wanted to connect with old shipmates? I'll bet emailling either of those two addresses will connect you up with friends or family of some navy vets - if not the vets themselves. Just a thought that came to me when I saw this page.

 

[gradyhappyg]

Arrrrgggggg everone says grey but all the color photos look mostly shades of brownish to me. I do however have a new monitor and poor eye sight so that could be it. All I have left to do is putting together the read me and maybe adding one more color(brownish)to go along with the unpainted,medium grey,dark grey and original steel look with cleats and zipping it up. Should be uploaded by this PM.

 

[delta_lima]

Arrrrgggggg everone says grey but all the color photos look mostly shades of brownish to me. I do however have a new monitor and poor eye sight so that could be it. All I have left to do is putting together the read me and maybe adding one more color(brownish)to go along with the unpainted,medium grey,dark grey and original steel look with cleats and zipping it up. Should be uploaded by this PM.

Sounds excellent. The issue may also be the "colour" photos may be a bit off given the stage of colour photography development techniques of the period, as well as the aging of the photos. I have colour photos that are thirty years old that have visibly changed - I can only imagine how an image twice that age might have changed. Digitally capturing now only freezes whatever degredation has occurred in the preceding decades.

I'm sure the cleating alone, never mind the colour enhancements - will make this a very welcome download - thanks so much!!!

dl

 

[Helldiver]

Color film was a rarity in those days. For one thing it was very expensive. It only could be developed by Eastman Kodak. The dyes that they used were unstable. It wasn't like you could drop it off at the local drug store. Since then color photogrphy has gone through a bunch of changes, all of them better. Believe me, the carrier decks were very grey and not brown.

 

[gradyhappyg]

I believe you HD the only WW2 era deck I have actually seen for myself is BB-55 in Wilmington that before the recent repaint/repair and then it looked much like my deck out back weathered sun baked light grey. In any case the textures are uploaded and I included 5 with screenies so folks could decide which one they like the best. Personally I like the faded grey myself.
Thanks again Michael for the great boat and permission to play with the textures.
HappyG.

 

[fliger747]

The teak decks of the WWII battleships have weathered to the gray that HD shows. However during the war (The big one...) decks were sometimes painted, deck blue being a typical scheme. Some photos will show this at some times during the operational life show that the paint must have been quite transitory!

T

 

[michael davies]

It looks to me that that straight-deck carriers were using wood decks post WWII and into Korea ...

All Essex carriers without exception carried wooden decks from the day they were built to the day they were de comissioned, from WWII to Vietnam. Even the SCB angled deck versions had wooden decks, however, there is always a however isnt there LOL, the SCB conversions were not 'full' wooden deck in the truest sense. To the uninformed eye they appeared not to be wooden, they were wood through out, but high impact areas were coated with a steel sheet, traditionally this was the angled landed area, not all of it but the section around the arresting wires and a little further forward. Other areas coated with steel plate were around the cats on the bow, generally where the wheels went, either side remained wooden and in some cases no steel plate at the bow at all.

Elevator 2 (port midships) was pure steel as was the new enlarged bow center, the pointy enlargement added to enable Crusaders to be struck down, the starboard aft was also steel and in some cases (if my memory serves me correctly) both port and starboard were not solid but a grill/mesh affair to keep weight down. I believe there were other small patches of steel over wood dotted around in high impact areas, one being where the arrestor wire joins tended to thump down when pulled out by landing aircraft.

Wooden decks were common on most large vessels, however the surface area of a BB compared to a CV is vastly different when viewed from an attacking plane, hence the dyes used on carriers to try and make them blend into the background better, most BB and CA/CL were stained during the war but as the threat of aircraft attack decreased and post war it was back to hollystone decks but carriers remained stained if not by color then by aircraft dripping every known substance on the deck and it being mixed in by wheels and vehicles etc.

Have to confess in some of the pictures it looks more brown than grey!, glad I dont so this lark any more LOL, the attention to detail is soooo demanding .

Kindest

Michael

 

[delta_lima]

Thought so, Michael;

In fact, some other older post-war carriers (I'm thinking either Hancock or Orikany) had wood too. I have pictures at home of Crusaders being positioned on decks that I'm pretty sure were wood.

Anyway - can't wait to try these new textures tonight ...

dl