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The Staff of SOH
B-17 Liberty Belle CRASHED!
- Thread starter argo147
- Start date
Wittpilot
Warbird Guru
Roadrunner did a nice job answering that question, and knows far more than I would. I would think that the engines just may be saved, bits of the tail & wingtips, and thats about it... I mean, if we think about it, that is pretty much similar to what some restorations start with. We probably only had a little more than that in Urbana.... It is absolutely nothing time or money wouldn't solve. Fortunately Mr. Brooks has another B-17 that he can restore. UNFORTUNATELY, you are looking at a complete rebuild and a very looooong one at that....
-witt
Well there is hope parts of the Liberty Belle will fly again!
Wittpilot
Warbird Guru
I decided to upload 3 random memories real quick...
First is from 2 years ago in Cincy on our way up to Cleveland... (I was hoping to make that trip again in two weeks!)
A picture from 2005 while she stayed a week at our home airport... I wasn't really involved with any duties then, but still got several "perks"
And a picture ~ 2006 that is one of my all tame fav shots taken right after buzzing the field in Urbana taken by my good friend....
-witt
First is from 2 years ago in Cincy on our way up to Cleveland... (I was hoping to make that trip again in two weeks!)
A picture from 2005 while she stayed a week at our home airport... I wasn't really involved with any duties then, but still got several "perks"
And a picture ~ 2006 that is one of my all tame fav shots taken right after buzzing the field in Urbana taken by my good friend....
-witt
Wittpilot
Warbird Guru
On a lighter note, my brother has been texting me all day...One text from earlier was,
"Dude, I think I need a hug...."
Now I just got one that said....."I fixed the whole problem. We need to buy Pink Lady!!! Dude there not using it, I mean come on!"
Forgive him, he's in college..... although he does make a good point....She's pretty much a flier that has been put out to pasture because they can't afford to fly her.........
Hmmmmmmmm I wonder what the shipping charges on that baby would be......
-witt
"Dude, I think I need a hug...."
Now I just got one that said....."I fixed the whole problem. We need to buy Pink Lady!!! Dude there not using it, I mean come on!"
Forgive him, he's in college..... although he does make a good point....She's pretty much a flier that has been put out to pasture because they can't afford to fly her.........
Hmmmmmmmm I wonder what the shipping charges on that baby would be......
-witt
Terrible shame to see Liberty Belle destroyed. The pilot did a great job force landing. And the aircraft was completely intact! Arrgh..how frustrating and upsetting that would have been for the crew as they could do nothing but watch her burn with no emergency services around to put it out.
It's obvious to me where the fire originated from. Just looking at the burn pattern shows its spread out from behind the inner port engine with the feathered prop that you see in the pics and vid.
It's obvious to me where the fire originated from. Just looking at the burn pattern shows its spread out from behind the inner port engine with the feathered prop that you see in the pics and vid.
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
Looks to me like very good actions by the crew...
Wittpilot
Warbird Guru
Here's the Note I put on my FB.... Hopefully tomorrow we will have an official statement to post on the Liberty Foundation's website (its currently down) and our FB page....
If you asked me last week if I'd be distraught at the thought of losing an inanimate object I would have probably laughed at you. I mean sure, we all have our “things” that we would miss, but what about something you don’t even own?
Right after I heard Liberty Belle had made an emergency landing and a fire onboard, I opened up the news on my phone and tried to prepare myself for what I saw…. Nothing could have prepared me for what the images showed. She caught fire shortly after takeoff and the pilot had to put her in as best he could…. And did he ever… He flopped her in on a soggy field wheels down and gave everybody the chance to get out. The fire spread quickly and in minutes she was gone.
So why be upset? She offered so much to so many people. It gave them a chance to get up close and personal. To feel, smell, hear, & taste it. To experience what their grandparents must have felt.
She was a tough old bird… and much like her forefathers, even though she was spitting fire and on three engines, she brought everybody home safe.
Blue Skies & Tail Winds…….
If you asked me last week if I'd be distraught at the thought of losing an inanimate object I would have probably laughed at you. I mean sure, we all have our “things” that we would miss, but what about something you don’t even own?
Right after I heard Liberty Belle had made an emergency landing and a fire onboard, I opened up the news on my phone and tried to prepare myself for what I saw…. Nothing could have prepared me for what the images showed. She caught fire shortly after takeoff and the pilot had to put her in as best he could…. And did he ever… He flopped her in on a soggy field wheels down and gave everybody the chance to get out. The fire spread quickly and in minutes she was gone.
So why be upset? She offered so much to so many people. It gave them a chance to get up close and personal. To feel, smell, hear, & taste it. To experience what their grandparents must have felt.
She was a tough old bird… and much like her forefathers, even though she was spitting fire and on three engines, she brought everybody home safe.
Blue Skies & Tail Winds…….
Smashing Time
Charter Member 2014
Indeed a depressing ending for this artifact history. Without a doubt the time it was touring brought back many memories for the vets as well as an appreciation of the experiences they had fighting for this country.
Thanks for the memories 'Liberty Belle'
Thanks for the memories 'Liberty Belle'
Railrunner130
Charter Member
I came across Liberty Belle at least once. The time that I recall, she was at CYYT, in approximately August, 2006. I don't recall if she was coming or going. Either way, it's pretty impressive for an airplane of that age to be able to still cross the Atlantic.
As for restoration, one of the things that I learned from visiting Duxford ten years ago (already?) is that, where there is a will and cash, there is a way. It may not be legal to restore her in the US (a certain percentage must be original as I recall), but I'd bet somebody has the prerequisites.
It's hard to see through the smoke, but this could eventually turn into a good thing. It sounds like Mr. Brooks has another airplane that could be restored, potentially returning air to the underside of another pair of wings. If someone were to get Liberty Belle at the right price, possibly she could be restored as well.
Thankfully nobody was hurt.
As for restoration, one of the things that I learned from visiting Duxford ten years ago (already?) is that, where there is a will and cash, there is a way. It may not be legal to restore her in the US (a certain percentage must be original as I recall), but I'd bet somebody has the prerequisites.
It's hard to see through the smoke, but this could eventually turn into a good thing. It sounds like Mr. Brooks has another airplane that could be restored, potentially returning air to the underside of another pair of wings. If someone were to get Liberty Belle at the right price, possibly she could be restored as well.
Thankfully nobody was hurt.
Daveroo
Members +
i keep seeing the pics and reading the thoughts on rebuild,or buy another B17 for the foundation...well i hope the foundation keeps the nose/tail,and whats left of the wings and engine mounts cowls,,,they would make a great museum display and a memoria to not only that plane but to many crews who didnt make it home....
Bomber_12th
SOH-CM-2025
Don Brooks has had another quite complete project B-17 for several years, known as the 'Labrador B-17'. The plan all along has been to make it a flyer as well, but hopefully, despite the loss of Liberty Belle, it will help to push forward the restoration of this B-17.
While speaking on this subject again, it just erks me to read the titles that the media has given to this incident. They sure like to use the term crash, don't they? Knowing that stating anything remotely close to the facts, wouldn't draw the mass public to read and watch and react as they want them to. It is obvious that through the photos and accounts that came to be just a few hours following the event, there was never anything close to what could be defined as a crash. Yet at this time, I just saw a headline that read "WWII Bomber Crashes at Show", two inaccurate statements in one! It's that type of ignorant and false reporting that can have a negative affect on the warbird community.
BTW, I have read today that all of the B-17 owners within the 'B-17 Co-Op', including the CAF, have voluntarilly grounded their operations, pending inspections of specific systems in light of yesterday's events, which is a very smart move. As reported via the CAF, it is not expected to be a lengthy process.
While speaking on this subject again, it just erks me to read the titles that the media has given to this incident. They sure like to use the term crash, don't they? Knowing that stating anything remotely close to the facts, wouldn't draw the mass public to read and watch and react as they want them to. It is obvious that through the photos and accounts that came to be just a few hours following the event, there was never anything close to what could be defined as a crash. Yet at this time, I just saw a headline that read "WWII Bomber Crashes at Show", two inaccurate statements in one! It's that type of ignorant and false reporting that can have a negative affect on the warbird community.
BTW, I have read today that all of the B-17 owners within the 'B-17 Co-Op', including the CAF, have voluntarilly grounded their operations, pending inspections of specific systems in light of yesterday's events, which is a very smart move. As reported via the CAF, it is not expected to be a lengthy process.
Bomber_12th
SOH-CM-2025
As posted by the Liberty Foundation's Chief Pilot, Ray Fowler, on their Facebook page -
First, let me start off by sincerely thanking everyone for the outpouring of support that we are receiving. I am sorry that I have not yet had the opportunity to return the many phone calls, text or e-mails that I am receiving offering to help. Again, thank you for all of the kind words that we are receiving and for incredible offers to help emotionally, financially and/or with the recovery process. I hope this statement will help fill in a few details that everyone is wondering about that led to the loss of our “Liberty Belle”.
Yesterday morning, both our P-40 and B-17 were scheduled to fly from Aurora, Illinois to Indianapolis, Indiana. We were in Aurora for the weekend as a part of our scheduled tour. Over the course of the previous week, we completed a scheduled 25-hour inspection on the B-17 which was completed by Saturday. On Saturday, the weather stayed below the required ceiling to give any passenger flights, however the B-17 flew in the morning on a routine training proficiency flight, performing several patterns. Following the flight, other maintenance issues arose that required us to cancel our Sunday flying schedule for repairs. The maintenance performed has not been, in any way, associated to the chain of events that led to Monday’s fateful flight, but is being considered in the preliminary investigation. However, due to the media’s sensational (mis)reporting, there is a large amount of misinformation that continues to lead the news.
Here is what we do know… Flying in the left seat of the B-17 was Capt. John Hess. John has been flying our Liberty Belle since 2005 and one of our most experienced B-17 pilots. He is an active Delta Air Lines Captain with over 14,000 hours of flying experience and flys a variety of vintage WWII aircraft. In the right seat was Bud Sittic. While Bud is new to the Liberty Foundation this year, he is also incredibly experienced with over 14,000 hours of flying time in vintage and hi-performance aircraft. He is a retired Captain with Delta Air Lines.
The news misidentified the P-40 as flying chase during the accident. I was flying our P-40, however I had departed 20 minutes prior to the B-17’s takeoff on the short flight to Indianapolis to setup for the B-17’s arrival. The aircraft flying chase was a T-6 Texan flown by owner Cullen Underwood. Cullen is one of our rated B-17 Captains and an experienced aviator tagging along as a support ship.
The takeoff of both aircraft was uneventful and proceeded on-course southeast. Prior to exiting Aurora’s airport traffic area, the B-17 crew and passengers began investigating an acrid smell and started a turn back to the airport. Almost immediately thereafter, Cullen spotted flames coming from the left wing and reported over the radio that they were on fire.
As all pilots know, there are few emergency situations that are more critical than having an in-flight fire. While it is extremely rare, it can (and sometimes does) indiscriminately affect aircraft of any age or type. In-flight fires have led to the loss of not only aircraft, but often can result in catastrophic loss of life. It requires an immediate action on the flight crew, as the integrity of aircraft structure, systems and critical components are in question.
Directly below the B-17 was a farmer’s field and the decision was made to land immediately. Approximately 1 minute and 40 seconds from the radio report of the fire, the B-17 was down safely on the field. Within that 1:40 time frame, the crew shutdown and feathered the number 2 engine, activated the engine’s fire suppression system, lowered the landing gear and performed an on-speed landing. Bringing the B-17 to a quick stop, the crew and passengers quickly and safely exited the aircraft. Overhead in the T-6, Cullen professionally coordinated and directed the firefighting equipment which was dispatched by Aurora Tower to the landing location.
Unlike the sensational photos that you have all seen of the completely burned B-17 on the news, you will see from photos taken by our crew that our Liberty Belle was undamaged by the forced landing and at the time of landing, the wing fire damage was relatively small. The crew actually unloaded bags, then had the horrible task of watching the aircraft slowly burn while waiting for the fire trucks to arrive. There were high hopes that the fire would be extinguished quickly and the damage would be repairable. Those hopes were diminished as the fire trucks deemed the field too soft to cross due to the area’s recent rainfall. So while standing by our burning B-17 and watching the fire trucks parked at the field’s edge, they sadly watched the wing fire spread to the aircraft’s fuel cells and of course, you all have seen the end result. There is no doubt that had the fire equipment been able to reach our aircraft, the fire would have been quickly extinguished and our Liberty Belle would have been repaired to continue her worthwhile mission.
Let me go on the record by thanking the flight crew for their professionalism. Their actions were nothing short of heroic and their quick thinking, actions and experience led to a “successful” outcome to this serious in-flight emergency. John and Bud (and Cullen) did a remarkable job under extreme circumstances and performed spectacularly. While the leading news stories have repeatedly reported the “crash” of our B-17, fact is they made a successful forced landing and the aircraft was ultimately consumed by fire. Airplanes are replaceable but people are not and while the aircraft’s loss is tragic, it was a successful result.
This leads me into discussing the exceptional safety record of the Boeing B-17 and to hopefully squash the naysayers who preach we should not be flying these types of aircraft. Since we first flew the “Liberty Belle” in December of 2004, we have flown over 20,000 passengers throughout the country and if you count our historic trip to Europe in 2008, worldwide. Of the other touring B-17s, some of which that have been touring for over 20 years, they have safely flown hundreds of thousands of people. The aircraft’s safety record is spectacular and I am certain the overall cause of our issue, which is under investigation, will not tarnish that safety record. In fact, as many of you know, other B-17 have suffered significant damage (although not as bad as ours!), only to be re-built to fly again. From a passenger carrying standpoint, I can think of few aircraft that offer the same level of safety as the 4-engine “Flying Fortress”. As mentioned earlier, in-flight fires are extremely rare and certainly could affect any powered aircraft under certain circumstances. I would put my children today in any of the other touring B-17s to go fly. I suggest to anyone that was thinking of doing so when a B-17 visits your area to do so without giving our loss any thought.
There is wild speculation going on as to the cause of our fire and the affect to other operators. Please let the investigation run its course and report the findings. The NTSB and FAA were quickly on the scene and we are working closely with them to aid in the investigation. As soon as we receive some additional information, we will release it via the website <!-- m -->http://www.libertyfoundation.org/<!-- m -->.
The ultimate question remains, where does the Liberty Foundation go from here? After the investigation and recovery, we will determine our options. We are still committed to the restoration and flying of World War II aircraft. Again, we appreciate the support and people offering to help get us back flying.
Please check back for updates. I will close by thanking everyone that made our tour so successful. From the first day of the B-17’s restoration, thank you for all of you who labored to get her flying over the initial restoration years and to everyone that has worked on her out on tour since. Thank you to the crewmembers, tour coordinators and volunteers who gave up weekends and countless hours to support her on the road. And finally, thank you to the passengers, donors and media patrons that flew aboard and everyone who supported our cause. Hopefully, this will not be the end of the story, but a new beginning.
Regards,
Ray Fowler
The Liberty Foundation, Chief Pilot
First, let me start off by sincerely thanking everyone for the outpouring of support that we are receiving. I am sorry that I have not yet had the opportunity to return the many phone calls, text or e-mails that I am receiving offering to help. Again, thank you for all of the kind words that we are receiving and for incredible offers to help emotionally, financially and/or with the recovery process. I hope this statement will help fill in a few details that everyone is wondering about that led to the loss of our “Liberty Belle”.
Yesterday morning, both our P-40 and B-17 were scheduled to fly from Aurora, Illinois to Indianapolis, Indiana. We were in Aurora for the weekend as a part of our scheduled tour. Over the course of the previous week, we completed a scheduled 25-hour inspection on the B-17 which was completed by Saturday. On Saturday, the weather stayed below the required ceiling to give any passenger flights, however the B-17 flew in the morning on a routine training proficiency flight, performing several patterns. Following the flight, other maintenance issues arose that required us to cancel our Sunday flying schedule for repairs. The maintenance performed has not been, in any way, associated to the chain of events that led to Monday’s fateful flight, but is being considered in the preliminary investigation. However, due to the media’s sensational (mis)reporting, there is a large amount of misinformation that continues to lead the news.
Here is what we do know… Flying in the left seat of the B-17 was Capt. John Hess. John has been flying our Liberty Belle since 2005 and one of our most experienced B-17 pilots. He is an active Delta Air Lines Captain with over 14,000 hours of flying experience and flys a variety of vintage WWII aircraft. In the right seat was Bud Sittic. While Bud is new to the Liberty Foundation this year, he is also incredibly experienced with over 14,000 hours of flying time in vintage and hi-performance aircraft. He is a retired Captain with Delta Air Lines.
The news misidentified the P-40 as flying chase during the accident. I was flying our P-40, however I had departed 20 minutes prior to the B-17’s takeoff on the short flight to Indianapolis to setup for the B-17’s arrival. The aircraft flying chase was a T-6 Texan flown by owner Cullen Underwood. Cullen is one of our rated B-17 Captains and an experienced aviator tagging along as a support ship.
The takeoff of both aircraft was uneventful and proceeded on-course southeast. Prior to exiting Aurora’s airport traffic area, the B-17 crew and passengers began investigating an acrid smell and started a turn back to the airport. Almost immediately thereafter, Cullen spotted flames coming from the left wing and reported over the radio that they were on fire.
As all pilots know, there are few emergency situations that are more critical than having an in-flight fire. While it is extremely rare, it can (and sometimes does) indiscriminately affect aircraft of any age or type. In-flight fires have led to the loss of not only aircraft, but often can result in catastrophic loss of life. It requires an immediate action on the flight crew, as the integrity of aircraft structure, systems and critical components are in question.
Directly below the B-17 was a farmer’s field and the decision was made to land immediately. Approximately 1 minute and 40 seconds from the radio report of the fire, the B-17 was down safely on the field. Within that 1:40 time frame, the crew shutdown and feathered the number 2 engine, activated the engine’s fire suppression system, lowered the landing gear and performed an on-speed landing. Bringing the B-17 to a quick stop, the crew and passengers quickly and safely exited the aircraft. Overhead in the T-6, Cullen professionally coordinated and directed the firefighting equipment which was dispatched by Aurora Tower to the landing location.
Unlike the sensational photos that you have all seen of the completely burned B-17 on the news, you will see from photos taken by our crew that our Liberty Belle was undamaged by the forced landing and at the time of landing, the wing fire damage was relatively small. The crew actually unloaded bags, then had the horrible task of watching the aircraft slowly burn while waiting for the fire trucks to arrive. There were high hopes that the fire would be extinguished quickly and the damage would be repairable. Those hopes were diminished as the fire trucks deemed the field too soft to cross due to the area’s recent rainfall. So while standing by our burning B-17 and watching the fire trucks parked at the field’s edge, they sadly watched the wing fire spread to the aircraft’s fuel cells and of course, you all have seen the end result. There is no doubt that had the fire equipment been able to reach our aircraft, the fire would have been quickly extinguished and our Liberty Belle would have been repaired to continue her worthwhile mission.
Let me go on the record by thanking the flight crew for their professionalism. Their actions were nothing short of heroic and their quick thinking, actions and experience led to a “successful” outcome to this serious in-flight emergency. John and Bud (and Cullen) did a remarkable job under extreme circumstances and performed spectacularly. While the leading news stories have repeatedly reported the “crash” of our B-17, fact is they made a successful forced landing and the aircraft was ultimately consumed by fire. Airplanes are replaceable but people are not and while the aircraft’s loss is tragic, it was a successful result.
This leads me into discussing the exceptional safety record of the Boeing B-17 and to hopefully squash the naysayers who preach we should not be flying these types of aircraft. Since we first flew the “Liberty Belle” in December of 2004, we have flown over 20,000 passengers throughout the country and if you count our historic trip to Europe in 2008, worldwide. Of the other touring B-17s, some of which that have been touring for over 20 years, they have safely flown hundreds of thousands of people. The aircraft’s safety record is spectacular and I am certain the overall cause of our issue, which is under investigation, will not tarnish that safety record. In fact, as many of you know, other B-17 have suffered significant damage (although not as bad as ours!), only to be re-built to fly again. From a passenger carrying standpoint, I can think of few aircraft that offer the same level of safety as the 4-engine “Flying Fortress”. As mentioned earlier, in-flight fires are extremely rare and certainly could affect any powered aircraft under certain circumstances. I would put my children today in any of the other touring B-17s to go fly. I suggest to anyone that was thinking of doing so when a B-17 visits your area to do so without giving our loss any thought.
There is wild speculation going on as to the cause of our fire and the affect to other operators. Please let the investigation run its course and report the findings. The NTSB and FAA were quickly on the scene and we are working closely with them to aid in the investigation. As soon as we receive some additional information, we will release it via the website <!-- m -->http://www.libertyfoundation.org/<!-- m -->.
The ultimate question remains, where does the Liberty Foundation go from here? After the investigation and recovery, we will determine our options. We are still committed to the restoration and flying of World War II aircraft. Again, we appreciate the support and people offering to help get us back flying.
Please check back for updates. I will close by thanking everyone that made our tour so successful. From the first day of the B-17’s restoration, thank you for all of you who labored to get her flying over the initial restoration years and to everyone that has worked on her out on tour since. Thank you to the crewmembers, tour coordinators and volunteers who gave up weekends and countless hours to support her on the road. And finally, thank you to the passengers, donors and media patrons that flew aboard and everyone who supported our cause. Hopefully, this will not be the end of the story, but a new beginning.
Regards,
Ray Fowler
The Liberty Foundation, Chief Pilot
Daveroo
Members +
to comment on what bomber12 said...sentimental journy was at the EAA fly-in at yuba county last weekend and they were having some sort of troubles...im NOT speculating or rumormonging...but i have pics of the number two and three engines with the cowlings off and oil everywhere...the announcer kept saying there would be B17 rides..then you looked at the b17 and it was in pieces,,at one point they seemed to be trying to either start or just turn over the number two,,,it made a loud whirrring sound..the prop never turned..it smoked a little and popped..then a man on the ground with a headset on took off his headset and threw it across the pavement...
Wittpilot
Warbird Guru
Wittpilot
Warbird Guru
BTW, I love how I am one of two mods on the FB page and John read that before I did!!!!!!!!
I thinkt the fact that the airplane was saveable after the forced landing in the field, just makes it all that much more horrible I think.... I mean, if the trucks couldn't have made it back there, they couldn't make it back... but to have to sit there and watch the poor son of a gun burn..... I couldn't have done it.....
I thinkt the fact that the airplane was saveable after the forced landing in the field, just makes it all that much more horrible I think.... I mean, if the trucks couldn't have made it back there, they couldn't make it back... but to have to sit there and watch the poor son of a gun burn..... I couldn't have done it.....
Look at the wheels of the aircraft, they're not sunk axle-deep in mud. Seems to me that if the field was able to support the aircraft, the fire trucks could've made it to the scene when they first showed up. I'll be sure to get good homeowner's insurance if I ever buy a house in Oswego, in case of fire my yard might be too muddy for their trucks. 