wow...sad news here...Nemeth Design out of business

[Deano]

lol, hes the man!

Yes the paying customer is the problem, just ask Basil Fawlty from Fawlty Towers!

Regards, Mike Mann

 

[Sieggie]

One of the problems the Dev's seem to want to ignore, is that their lack of patches to fix glaring problems, puts off people from wanting to buy the new products until all the bugs are worked out on the existing product. This leads to the circle of death whereby the dev's can't afford to spend development time on bug fixes, which generate no income, when they need new products to pay the employees. It will eventually spiral into the ground. The dev's then get angry at the existing customers for asking for updates and piss off the customers that were buying the new product, making even the new stuff unprofitable.

Not sure how to fix this problem in such a small niche market as we have here.

 

[Deano]

Total rubbish, I assume this was directed at vstudios and with the above statement, do you condone Piracy ?

and yes my above comments was directed at you.

One of the problems the Dev's seem to want to ignore, is that their lack of patches to fix glaring problems, puts off people from wanting to buy the new products until all the bugs are worked out on the existing product. This leads to the circle of death whereby the dev's can't afford to spend development time on bug fixes, which generate no income, when they need new products to pay the employees. It will eventually spiral into the ground. The dev's then get angry at the existing customers for asking for updates and piss off the customers that were buying the new product, making even the new stuff unprofitable.

Not sure how to fix this problem in such a small niche market as we have here.

 

[jojohnson9]

What does "dummy spit" mean? Does it mean the same thing as "bulls..t" here in the USA? I'm not trying to stir things up. I have never heard the term before.

 

[Deano]

Spitting there dummy out = being mardy/childish/im not playing anymore kind of attitude.

What does "dummy spit" mean? Does it mean the same thing as "bulls..t" here in the USA? I'm not trying to stir things up. I have never heard the term before.

 

[wombat666]

Total rubbish, I assume this was directed at vstudios and with the above statement, do you condone Piracy ?
and yes my above comments was directed at you.

Not very professional sport.
Never 'assume' anything and do keep your remarks polite.

This is not a thread for bashing ANY developer nor is it one for a Developer to bash members.
Keep it up and I will lock it.

 

[Deano]

That's very odd indeed, the bashing started before I joined in ?

What got my goat up was when a member thought it prudent to insult and to call another developer dumb !

you want to ban me for defending them, then do so. I find it odd to be singled out.

Not very professional sport.
Never 'assume' anything and do keep your remarks polite.

This is not a thread for bashing ANY developer nor is it one for a Developer to bash members.
Keep it up and I will lock it.

 

[jojohnson9]

Spitting there dummy out = being mardy/childish/im not playing anymore kind of attitude.

Thanks, Deano.

 

[Deano]

no problem jo :ernae:

Thanks, Deano.

 

[Warrant]

Sorry to hear an excellent designer/developer like ND going into trouble due to piracy. I for one, admire their high quality products since FS9 (their great Hind and Hip helo's were far ahead of their time in the sim-world). Currently i'm enjoying their FSX Huey-line.

The only anti-piracy suggestion i can make to perhaps reduce the number of people who download the hacked stuff is: Developers, ussue demo-versions first (either limited in capability, or the full package with time limitation (like Abacus does)).

At least a percentage of the downloaders will have the oppurtunity to play around first and then decide to actually pay for the software once satisfied.

I hope stuff will be solved and ND will continue their business.

 

[wombat666]

insulting?
Maybe

blunt?
Yes

fact of life?
Yes

Will the guy who posted the torrent remove it after reading or hearing about it ?
No

Will people stop downloading it?
No

will it change a thing?
No
as mick said whos been in this game for a while " it won't change a thing, those carrying out such actions really don't give a damn and its no great loss to them if any developer folds, they will just steal from another or in the worse case scenario, go play something else, chances are most are not what I can pure aviation sim enthusiasts anyway, spongers with a thin grasp of what we're (the real community) really all about, an idle interest in the sim and its community and onward to the next hot thing"

1 thing i will give them credit for, theyre not as dumb as another developer who during their dummy spit posted the link to the torrent and left it there for a few days

Thats has to be the single-est dumbest thing ive seen when it came to protesting about piracy

The word you should be using here Matt is 'Naive', not 'Dumb'.

 

[Sieggie]

No, It was not directed at VS. Updates are slow in coming from all developers. As stated, no income is created from an update so dev's put most of their resources toward new development. I was stating my opinion, not making any accusation.

 

[Deano]

Please accept my apology. I guess I was in the heat of the battle.

if its any consolation how wrong I was, I'll sort you out a free copy of the Avenger

No, It was not directed at VS. Updates are slow in coming from all developers. As stated, no income is created from an update so dev's put most of their resources toward new development. I was stating my opinion, not making any accusation.

 

[skyhawka4m]

You know what...now I'm sorry I posted this. Frankly its upsetting that someone can't post something, then follow up with a message of support to only be followed by this trash. Gentleman we are all better than this. Maybe if we all talked about a solution instead of throwing eah under the bus, stabbing with knives, or insulting each other. We all live in a time when this should be a release from our everyday reality and frankly its starting to remind me of what I try to get asway from every day.


Let's work together to find a solution or just keep our mouths shut.


Deano good on you with offfering the free plane to the other gent. Now, I will buy the Avenger, even if it comes with less paints as a download.

 

[AndyG43]

OK, I was going to steer clear of this thread, but need to add my two pennorth after all.

Sieggie has a point about the updates, and it builds on comments made by Michael & others. Addons are now becoming increasingly expensive, so I am becoming increasingly choosy about what I spend my limited funds on; what I don't do is scour the torrent sites, and I don't condone piracy (before anybody starts pointing fingers) - but the other thing I won't do is pay to become a beta tester, help iron out the bugs and then wait for the patches to come along.

If I am spending my hard earned I want a product I know will work, and one that "floats my boat"; sadly, while I have a number of previous Nemeth choppers still flying in FS2004, it means I won't be buying the Agusta - it's what Michael meant when he was talking about niche markets. It did mean that I got the Razbam TA-7 (from Simmarket), but only when I knew the bugs were ironed out; and I'll likely be picking up the Wilco Harrier/Shar at some point soon, now that it is a more mature product. There has been a thread recently about a long awaited VC in a particular airlifter - reading between the lines on that thread there are still improvements to come at some unspecified point in the future, so it's still a beta as far as I'm concerned.

I can appreciate this is a tricky subject, so I don't want to inflame it. We've had enough of that here recently. But I just wanted to point out, as a consumer, that this is a different market now to the one I enjoyed when I entered the hobby, even leaving aside the piracy issues.

 

[Shane Olguin]

Dummy spitting... clearly something in the Commonwealth dictionary. I have never heard such a term!

 

[AndyG43]

Dummy spitting... clearly something in the Commonwealth dictionary. I have never heard such a term!

I thought that; presumably an Antipodean term, not one I'd come across before. The phrase we use here is "throwing his toys out of the pram" - not that I'm saying that's what happened on this occasion, just mentioning it for clarification.

 

[ryanbatc]

That sucks... I just spent $35 on their A109 last week... it really needs a fde update... I guess that won't happen... piracy happens you can't stop it, I don't see why they've only discovered this now.

 

[michael davies]

The products don't surface on torrents from thin air, they actually come from a purchase of a customer. whether shared with a friend or uploaded by themselves.

So isn't the problem of piracy derived from the paying customer ?

Quite so, but that's only half of the equation, the point I was succinctly trying to make and I admit it was perhaps a little to subtle, is this. Torrents will always be there, that one person will always buy and then torrent, he has always been there, he will always be there, its a fact you cannot change, but he is not the full problem, he is only half of the problem, the other half of the problem are the people who download.

That's the figure I suspect is on the rise for what ever reason, there is a growing number of people who are becoming less resistant, who have less self control, who are prepared to take the risk.

There is a behavioural model that can be applied in some context here (those not interested can skip this boring bit), its ins and outs are not really required here, but basically it works on the principle of any group falling into three broad categories. Those that constantly under perform/purposefully do wrong (15%), those that do average and generally what's right (75%) and those that exceed (10%), the problem is that as a manager or someone who can have an effect on the situation, and in this context I'm talking commercial developers, every one tends to concentrate on the low (15%) i.e. the problem people, in fact 75% of their energy is spent trying to sort them out, which results in the main body of people (75%) being neglected. The end result is that the lowest 15% drags the rest down, no matter how much energy you put into it. Recent research has shown that where those businesses exert more energy into the 75% mass have better results, they find that their exceed level rises from 10% to 20% and their lowest sector diminishes as low as 5%, in other words you use your best to drag the worst up the scale.

In simple terms, developers need to concentrate on their bread and butter customers, make them feel happy, they are the ones coming back time and again, the more of those customers they get/ retain, the less will/may migrate to shallow end of the pond.

You cannot stop the original torrent up loaders, all you can do is reduce the number that migrate to collecting that torrent.

Sadly though, Matt is right, things will never change, the flight sim community is not cohesive enough, yet, to accomplish very much in reducing this problem.

Best

Michael

 

[peter12213]

All I have to say is this is a real shame, not only Nemeth but also for Icarus too!