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Please see the most recent updates in the "Where did the .com name go?" thread. Posts number 16 and 17.
Why was the Nemeth / Piracy thread locked ?
- Thread starter Paul K
- Start date
mmann
Charter Member
Went back to Nemeth today and bought the BO-105, the EC 135 and the Super Stallion. Putting my money where my mouth is- support !
Sue
Excuse my ignorance but how can you purchase their product if they have posted in a number of flight sim forums that "Nemeth designs ceasing operation due to piracy"? Did they reopen for business?
Regards, Mike Mann
krazycolin
Banned
I was pretty mad too mate. I am still if the truth be known.
not really i can think back in 2003/04 when i was first made aware of it with alphasim and their methods of security, this made most websites, little has changed in piracy since then nor it will in the future
its like anything cybercrime hasnt reached its peak, its only a matter of time where even the new aerosoft key it cracked, if Microsoft cant protect their products how will a little game dev will
my view on this hasnt changed from the locked thread and it will never
all these threads do is just open old wounds and drag things on, and highlight the fact its out there for the new young user, as soon he reads thats its out there on torrent, he will go actively searching for it, what you have set out to try and stop you have advertised and encouraged
colin i understand your frustation, i do hear you, your models are that detailed theyre a right pain in the ass to work with when painting but IMO, threads this shouldnt be posted at general flightsiming sites but left for the individual devs site forum, it draws negative attention the the sim, and discourages people to read threads. for instance lastnight at hover control, ive received 31pms in the past 24hrs saying thank god thats over even from one person who i was very surprised to hear it from for a topic that was locked regarding same topic, people are sick of hearing about it, and fills up the forums with the same stuff every month , and if people want to show their support, they can always go to the developers site and show it there,
if anything a short post about the complaint and a link to the devs site, then it should be locked, so it doesnt get heated and drag things out here. Ive seen to many good guys fight among themselves over this, I know Dean isnt to impressed with me about my tac-less blunt comments, but that hasnt changed my views on him as im sitting waving my fist at the screen waiting for his tbm.
thankyou Mick, François and over devs out there that accept that its a fact of life instead of dragging it out & Helldiver you old salt, your still a gentleman
i give it another month until this topic surfaces in another form or shape, anyway has the TBM been released yet its due today?
Before this thread is locked - which by the way I think that it should be (as suggested by jeansy), here are a couple of constructive suggestions -
1. I think that all developers should follow the FTX approach - ie you have to show your purchase information before you can ask for help on a support matter.
2. Developers should find a way to ensure that updates are only available to purchasers that can show their purchase information.
Lastly, can I appeal to anyones sense of decency and standards?
All FSX producers/developers are a part of a 'cottage' industry nowadays. ie no-one makes much money from any purchases, but the small earnings available might be very important to some developers. IF YOU DONT BUY THE PRODUCTS, THEN THE DEVELOPERS WILL STOP DEVELOPING. If that matters to you - even a little bit - then buy something. :salute:
1. I think that all developers should follow the FTX approach - ie you have to show your purchase information before you can ask for help on a support matter.
2. Developers should find a way to ensure that updates are only available to purchasers that can show their purchase information.
Lastly, can I appeal to anyones sense of decency and standards?
All FSX producers/developers are a part of a 'cottage' industry nowadays. ie no-one makes much money from any purchases, but the small earnings available might be very important to some developers. IF YOU DONT BUY THE PRODUCTS, THEN THE DEVELOPERS WILL STOP DEVELOPING. If that matters to you - even a little bit - then buy something. :salute:
skyhawka4m
Charter Member
Since all of this has happened I've shown my support by purchasing the BO-105, and just the other night the MD500....both of which are awesome to fly. I'm hoping for more repaints for the 500 though...otherwise.....having fun in my ND helo's.
skyhawka4m
Charter Member
Isn't there a way to hide a code, or something minor on each aircreaft so that if something shows up on a priate site you'll know right away who it is? maybe a serial number hidden somewhere? Minor changes to the model...something that is not obvious? How about a limited run serial numbered aircraft? Limit sales to say 4 or 5 hundred? I don't know if that many sell but I'm just trying to get a point across.
michael davies
Charter Member 2012
Did that with the Seaking way back in FS9, buried a serial number in the Hex code of the mdl, it's not rocket science you only need a four digit code to cover most sales, rarely if ever will a model exceed 9999 sales. Problem is if you sell 500 you have to compile 500 individual mdls and you have to have a developer with the will to implement such a strategy, but I added serials to the first copy and then the updates differently from the betas, narrowed it down a little but as a third party developer for a bigger concern I was toothless, nothing gets in the way of the cash flow you see, shame, could have locked it down years ago for a little back bone up front and patience from consumers.
Having said that, during that time period consumers were very anti anything that even mildly impinged on their rights and instant gratification to download, you wouldn't believe the hate mail if their download took more then 5 mins to complete!. So sadly I shed no tears for developers who in the past just wanted to milk the cash cow as quick and fast as possible after release and now cry foul at torrents, they made their bed, they can lie in it, if we'd started something back then then maybe the issue would not be as bad today
Maybe now is a good time to revisit such tactics, but I suspect the cash flow will still come above security I'm sad to say.
If it matters
I worked a project involving 'Jolly Green' many years ago and have had a small interest in trying to fly one in FSX. Closest model is CH-53 of Nemeth but never acted on a purchase. I suck horribly with helo's you see, but what the heck, I now have a pseudo Jolly Green in the hangar next to my old beat up Huey I've had since its release, also Nemeth BTW.
Now my FSX hangar is only short a couple aircraft representing all my experiences in my 22 year career.
Jim
I worked a project involving 'Jolly Green' many years ago and have had a small interest in trying to fly one in FSX. Closest model is CH-53 of Nemeth but never acted on a purchase. I suck horribly with helo's you see, but what the heck, I now have a pseudo Jolly Green in the hangar next to my old beat up Huey I've had since its release, also Nemeth BTW.
Now my FSX hangar is only short a couple aircraft representing all my experiences in my 22 year career.
Jim
Bjoern
worst developer ever
Down where we do our skiing, people over 65 get a discount for the lifts (used to be 60). Maybe we should do something like that for old-age pensioners in the FSX industry too.
About half of our customers would fall into that category I'd say.
If old people get a bonus, students and the disabled should get one, too! ;P
What about an experiment?
You throw a payware plane out with the invested work hours openly and clearly visisble on the page.
The customers can pay anything from 1 to 50€ for it, but, upon purchase must state their age, occupation and why they paid 1 or 50€s for it.
Granted, it would be just like donationware, but you'd get more of a customer<-> designer feedback and an impression of your average customer.
Also, what about delivering add-ons in components?
(Same as Rise Of Flight does with their entire sim.)
The total cost for everything would still be the regular price (40€s), but it would allow users to save money by leaving out the 2D panel or VC or the tons of repaints or the custom sounds.
PC gaming follows this route with its DLC craze, but it makes perfect sense if you consider that we're living in an age of individualization anyways.
krazycolin
Banned
I have a better one:
I will sell you the afterburners for 2 bucks, the landing gear for 5, the wings and fuselage for 10, the pilot figure for free, the paint kit for a buck, the VC for 10, all steam gauges for 10, any glass for 15-20 and the rest for free... oh.. Sound and a manual for 5 bucks.
I'm not even sure what all this adds up too.
I will sell you the afterburners for 2 bucks, the landing gear for 5, the wings and fuselage for 10, the pilot figure for free, the paint kit for a buck, the VC for 10, all steam gauges for 10, any glass for 15-20 and the rest for free... oh.. Sound and a manual for 5 bucks.
I'm not even sure what all this adds up too.
Meshman
Charter Member
$63.00, if you go full price on the glass. A little to steep for my wallet, unless you give an AARP discount?
There are solutions to the problem, if people will expand the thought process a little. Stopping all piracy may never happen, but setting up some deterrence will help to slow things down. IMO, of course.
Since I saw this thread start up I've been thinking about this quite a bit and whilst I can't claim to have any wild great solutions, the one thing that did occur to me was that there are a load of smart people on here who all have one thing in common - we want to support developers developing for our hobby.
Perhaps a more positive spin on the piracy thread would be to work collectively to find something that would work, perhaps not against the most dedicated hackers, but for the majority.
Am I being too naive to think that we could come up with something that worked for the majority of users, didn't cost developers much (if anything) to use and would make the pirates job a real PITA?
My two cents. Add-ons are at the end of things, software. All software can be provided with a lock, which is not foolproof, but it will deter most casual downloaders.
But all that will do is buy time, since somebody will break the lock and post it on the net.
Piracy is something that not even multibillion corporations can truly do anything. The only way to make people purchase your products is to give them more value than just the plain purchase. Customer Support or downloadable content, available only with proof of purchase. Stuff like that is the only thing that will keep people come back to your store.
But you must remember that almost everybody who download a pirated product, is not a customer lost. That person was never a customer for whatever reason.
But all that will do is buy time, since somebody will break the lock and post it on the net.
Piracy is something that not even multibillion corporations can truly do anything. The only way to make people purchase your products is to give them more value than just the plain purchase. Customer Support or downloadable content, available only with proof of purchase. Stuff like that is the only thing that will keep people come back to your store.
But you must remember that almost everybody who download a pirated product, is not a customer lost. That person was never a customer for whatever reason.
mmann
Charter Member
+1
Yes the Dummy Spitting part was most certainly the highlight of that thread!
Regards, Mike Mann
CWOJackson
Charter Member
I believe there are three things that contribute significantly to the problem:
- To add to what Zeus said, the relationship of the manufacturer and customers. Is a vendor that has a strong and responsive relationship with it's customers as pirated as one that has a more distant/less responsive relationship? Is part of the psychology is that it's okay to pirate from a vendor that you don't like?
- What degree does cost (also mentioned by Zeus) play? Is there a threshold where the conscience feels pirating is acceptable? "I can afford $20 but screw $60!" What happens when you combine both of the factors? For instance, is a vendor that has a great relationship with their customers, produces exceptional products and priced low as impacted by piracy as a company with a tenuous relationship with their customers and charges a higher price?
- Lastly, I have to wonder what the statistics are for the different types of addons? For instance, was the DC-2 (outstanding as it is) as pirated as any of the numerous spitfire packages? What about the A2A Boeing 377 and Piper compared to the latest fighter package? Are bush pilots more honest then fighter jocks?
- To add to what Zeus said, the relationship of the manufacturer and customers. Is a vendor that has a strong and responsive relationship with it's customers as pirated as one that has a more distant/less responsive relationship? Is part of the psychology is that it's okay to pirate from a vendor that you don't like?
- What degree does cost (also mentioned by Zeus) play? Is there a threshold where the conscience feels pirating is acceptable? "I can afford $20 but screw $60!" What happens when you combine both of the factors? For instance, is a vendor that has a great relationship with their customers, produces exceptional products and priced low as impacted by piracy as a company with a tenuous relationship with their customers and charges a higher price?
- Lastly, I have to wonder what the statistics are for the different types of addons? For instance, was the DC-2 (outstanding as it is) as pirated as any of the numerous spitfire packages? What about the A2A Boeing 377 and Piper compared to the latest fighter package? Are bush pilots more honest then fighter jocks?
More than happy to share the language of the Aussie bumAnd people wonder why I don't go payware...The best part of that closed thread was the new term I learned from that thread