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protesters,freedom of speach and the law/police orders

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Daveroo

Daveroo

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everyone prolly knows about the protests going on called "occupy wall street" and now other places and some violence,( not to mention the middle east and Egypt,but this is about the USA)and some of you may have heard about what happened at UC Davis in Davis california...some protesters were conducting a protest over the raise in tuition in the state college system UC system?.they were told on tuesday they could protest and be on the lawn area,its called something,but were told to remove the tents by 3 pm friday,at 3:30 pm friday the UC Davis police ordered the protesters ( they are not all students) to remove the tents..not leave as some are saying,they then formed a circle and sat..at which point they ( the cops) ordered them to leave(dispearse) and when the refused to comply they were "teargased" this action was a bit much in my opinion....they could have used another tactic...but here my deal....

i was allways told when a police officer gave you an order..you were to comply...or you were in violation of the law ( dont know what law,) but you were in trouble....i understand freedom of speach...but why is it that if i ,or anyone claims to be a "protester" do i get to disregaurd the law?....break windows,turn over cars,occupy land that does not belong to me,or have rules governing it to time limits ( say a PUBLIC park with a curfew),why can these people do these things and not expect to be punished in the name of protest?....i understand speaking your mind..but dont violate MY ringhts in YOOUR fight...

whoopie goldburg..usually an outspoken activist made a comment today on the view..she said to the occupy wall streeters,,if you follow through with your disruption of the macys thanksgivings day parade..if will prove youve gone beyond the point of the protest to just civil unrest.......and i agree....she went on to say abunch of stuff about the parade being about kids and family not politics and class status...

as i write this i realise this could be miscunstrude as a political rant..its not ment to be..i want to know what the laws are ...why a protester can get away with breaking laws under than name of protest...like cindy sheehan was arrested in sacramento for not leaving a park when ordered to by the police..so she was arrested for tresspassing...she pled not guilty in her hearing on the grounds that the police violated her rights as a protester for the fact they told her to leave..thats bs to me...and now the sacramento county taxpayers have to pay for her public defender ( she and all of them asked for the PD)...just disgusting
 
I understand your ambivilence. But as you form your position realize that the First Ammendmnt to the U.S. Constitution was written long before there existed either Police in riot gear, armed with pepper spray, or a trumped up holiday meant more to be a source of retail sales and an opportunity for television advertising revenue, than it ever was an occasion for true thanks.

Don't worry about the interruption of "the festivities", worry more about what's right. Assaulting non-violent protesters with chemicals may well be legal if you're wearing a badge, but it is not RIGHT under any circumstances. There's a big difference between ethical and moral. I defer to the latter. Hope you can figure this whole thin out.

LA
 
no no i agree what they did with the pepper spary was waaaaay WRONG....and i agree that the police chief,the two officers and now the UC davis chancelor are all out of thier jobs...thats not my point...my question is...as rambling as i am...where is the line drawn? when does violating the law in the name of protest and violating the law become differant?
 
Daveroo said:
...my question is...as rambling as i am...where is the line drawn? when does violating the law in the name of protest and violating the law become different?
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I believe the line should be drawn by law enforcement and local government officials at the start of the protest, not well into it when there are camps set up and the protestors have no intention of leaving without some kind of altercation. Former NYC Mayor Rudy Giuliani commented that there is a "no public sleeping" ordinance in that city. He would have dispersed the Occupy Wall Street group before they took root in Zuccotti Park. Exercising your right of free speech is one thing, forming a group that becomes a public nuisance and a haven for criminal activity is something else.
 
TARPSBird said:
forming a group that becomes a public nuisance
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The officials have been throwing that line left and right. They boot the protesters out of the parks and then days later you see videos of nobody using the parks. Heaven forbid they inconvenience a couple people at most.

How is it that we support protests overseas but we beat and pepper spray our own citizens doing it? The United States is a giant contradiction.
 
Hey All,

I generally stay out of these kinds of threads but I'll comment.

First I hope people keep it civil so opinions can be expressed.

Second Dave that is a difficult line to draw and the courts are all over the map on it. For me it is simple - safety first. If people are safe (police, fire and ambulance accessibility is maintained) then "they" and it doesn't matter to me if it is occupy wall street or the tea party - they have a right to be there for as long as they like. Keep it civil - keep it safe - then stand your ground to your heart's content. Take away that right and America will have lost a significant freedom.

-Ed-
 
Just a little reminder to keep well away from the politics please people.
Thanking you in anticipation.
:monkies:
 
Kiwikat said:
How is it that we support protests overseas but we beat and pepper spray our own citizens doing it? The United States is a giant contradiction.
Click to expand...


We have a winner. Any other argument is invalid.
 
That is not a valid argument at all, these protests overseas are against vicious oppressive dictatorial governments and tyrants of which, all joking aside, we have not experienced in the West since 1945.
Ultimately you may have freedom of speech, expression etc etc, but that is not an invitiation to misuse the right when ordinary working stiffs are incovenienced by it. This very day in Vancouver BC, the protestors moved on in compliance of a court injunction. Yeah moved on one block and set up camp on the steps of the Supreme courthouse. Now they are on Provincial land no longer City land, so the city can pass the buck. Meanwhile my tax dollars are keeping a police presence there to supervise people who do not speak for me and do not speak for the majority even though they claim to be the 99%. From what I can see the legitimacy of the protest ended several weeks ago and what remains is the great unwashed hoardes of unemployed and unemployable. Many are drug addicts, we've had one OD death so far and another brought back from the brink. How many are on social security..
I suspect that the same is reflected in cities all over. Wishy washy liberal do nothing governments. No wonder the police get frustrated and one or two individuals decide to take their frustrations out.
I am reminded of the line in the Peter Finch movie Network, "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!"
But on a lighter note, it snowed today!
 
as long as any protest is civil and safe and doesnt block any emergancy access then the police, in my opion, have no right (or reason) to disperse/attack/cuddle/hand out fluffy toys at all.

if however, a group of people just turn up, camp in the street and say "were protesting!!" then if they refuse to move, get rowdy, start causeing hassle, then i back the police 100% in whatever they do, includeing rubber bullets/water canon (can wash the street as there at it!)/ketteling etc.

At the end of the day i cant see why people bother protesting, doesnt matter which goverment it is they'll just do what they like anyway.
 
If one feels strongly enough about an issue to engauge in civil disobedience, one should be prepared to be gassed, trucheoned and water cannoned. Thats what police do.
Feel lucky. Here in B.C. getting a parking ticket, or asking a police officer for assistance for an injured person is grounds for a beating, let alone getting disoriented in an airport, or arrested with a tin of beer in the street; both apparently crimes waranting summary execution.
 
In before the lock! :mixedsmi:

The first amendment guarantees the right to peacefully assemble and protest, it does not guarantee a right to impede traffic, business, create a public hazard, etc. As the saying goes, your right to swing your arms ends at the tip of my nose.
 
i know i am mosyly' brain damaged:kilroy: tell me i am not reading, what i think i am, guys do the old H a favor'pleaese be kind:guinness:
thanksH
 
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