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  • Please see the most recent updates in the "Where did the .com name go?" thread. Posts number 16 and 17.

    Post 16 Update

    Post 17 Warning

Zero anybody?

A marvelous rendition of a spectacular aircraft. With limited resouces Japan produced an airplane that was a match for what our Navy had. It's suprising to me that all the emphasis is on the European theatre, which was fought in an area about the size as the state of Montana.
The Pacific theatre had the whole of the South Pacific and was bigger that the U.S. Yet F6-F Hellcats kill rate were more than 1000 shot down then that of the P-51. I hope that there is more of an emphasis on the Paciafic theater and the planes that flew in it. The war was longer and more violent than that of the European. With a population of 105 mllion. Japan was a more formidible foe than Germany, with only 76 million.
 
Helldiver said:
A marvelous rendition of a spectacular aircraft. With limited resouces Japan produced an airplane that was a match for what our Navy had. It's suprising to me that all the emphasis is on the European theatre, which was fought in an area about the size as the state of Montana.
The Pacific theatre had the whole of the South Pacific and was bigger that the U.S. Yet F6-F Hellcats kill rate were more than 1000 shot down then that of the P-51. I hope that there is more of an emphasis on the Paciafic theater and the planes that flew in it. The war was longer and more violent than that of the European. With a population of 105 mllion. Japan was a more formidible foe than Germany, with only 76 million.
Click to expand...

Helldiver,

Since most Americans are of European descent, it's natural that we tend to face that way in our interests, and our European friends simply so because they live in that theater. Your point on the Hellcat is well made though. I could be wrong, but I believe the Hellcat owns the distinction of being the allied planed that downed more enemy planes than any other single fighter design, which would include both the Spitfire, Corsair, and Mustang. Great design obviously, but also the nature of the combat when it was introduced.

Someone check me on that, but I think I'm correct.

This model looks fantastic and could start a resurgence in WWII PTO Japanese aircraft which, as you pointed out, been overlooked a bit.
 
It's arguable that WWII started in China well before the goings on in Europe. It is becoming increasingly arguable that most "Americans" are no longer of European descent....

I personally have always been interested in the PTO since my father served there during the war as a Naval Officer. BTW, heading out this afternoon for Korea, Okinawa and Guam, places my dad would remember well.

Glad to see Baz & Company working on this one, and for them being busy again after the great flood.

Cheers: Tom
 
TeaSea said:
This model looks fantastic and could start a resurgence in WWII PTO Japanese aircraft which, as you pointed out, been overlooked a bit.
Click to expand...

i've always wanted a good betty, however any dev would prolly have to know/learn japenese to do it right! :isadizzy:
 
It was stated that there was 6,098 shot down by heavy bombers. I have no way to contest it. Maybe they had a better platform than I had. All I could do is to fire in the general direction that the aircarft was in. My reaction time wouldn't keep up with the attacker. They go by much, much too fast. They don't hang around like the do in the movies. So all you can do is to put out enough lead in hopes that they fly into it. I think that in a large bomber formation, an enemy plane will get hit and there are probably 16 gunners take the credit. Along with a P-51.
 
In case anyone's interested, here are the 'claims' credited to various US types (air combat only).

P-51: 5,246 (Europe 4,950; Pacific 296) - kill ratio 11:1
F6F: 5,216 (USN 5,156; FAA 60) - kill ratio 19:1
P-47: 4,449 (Europe 3,752; Pacific 697) - kill ratio 5.2:1
P-38: 3,744 (Europe 2,050; Pacific 1,694) - kill ration 5.4:1
P-40: 3,551 (US Med 378; US Pac 655; CBI 973; Flying Tigers 297; RAF Med 845; RAAF Med 282; RAAF Pac 121) - kill ratio 2.8:1
F4U: 2,241 (USN/USMC 2,140; FAA 101) - kill ratio 11.3:1
F4F/FM: 1,327 (USN 1,006; FAA 321) - kill ratio 6.9:1
P-39: 243 - kill ratio 0.85:1


Note 1: Europe figure also covers the Med and Italy
Note 2: Claims by P-40's in VVS service unknown
Note 3: The claims for the P-39 only cover the Pacific. Med claims unknown, VVS claims unknown

Sources:
Naval Aviation Combat Statistics - World War II. By S.B. Barber
Barrett Tillman -various books
Flight Journal Issue February 2001
American War Planes of WWII. By David Donald
 
fliger747 said:
It's arguable that WWII started in China well before the goings on in Europe. It is becoming increasingly arguable that most "Americans" are no longer of European descent....



Cheers: Tom
Click to expand...

No Tom, with all due respect it is not arguable -- It's fact.

http://2010.census.gov/2010census/data/

While we celebrate "diversity"....most people that occupy the North American continent are descendant from Europeans. I don't assert this to offend, but you're either Indo-European, Native American, African, or Asian. Most likely you're a mix (as I am) but mostly, you're Indo-European if you live in the Continental United states.

I would admit that this does not necessarily imply a particular interest in the ETO vs. PTO, but I think it's natural given the demographics of WWII in the U.S. and the demographics today. I would also add that I think there's a particularly nasty race issue in the PTO (on both sides) that does not appear in the ETO. My own opinion obviously.

Sorry, but I couldn't let your assertion go unchallenged. It's always a good idea to remember who we really are, versus who others say we are.

I also want to thank Pips....my assertion was incorrect, but I think the F6F does not get full credit for it's kills over other more "romantic" designs. I don't think anyone would call the F6F a beauty queen, but it certainly seemed to get the job done.

Either way, I can't wait to get my Indo-European butt into this little virtual Zeke.
 
TeaSea said:
I also want to thank Pips....my assertion was incorrect, but I think the F6F does not get full credit for it's kills over other more "romantic" designs. I don't think anyone would call the F6F a beauty queen, but it certainly seemed to get the job done.
Click to expand...

To be fair TeaSea, if you don't count the Pacific claims of the P-51 (flying from Iwo Jima) then the F6F was the highest scoring aircraft that the US fielded. And in most books only direct comparison's between the P-51 in Europe v's the F6F in the Pacific are usually noted. Certainly the F6F dominated air combat in the Pacific to a greater degree than P-51 did in Europe.
 
A fabulous set of Japanese Carriers (as well as US) was done for FS9, in both Coral Sea and Midway scenario locations. Wish we could get those in FSX!!

The reason the fighting in China might be arguable as the start for some is that at the time it was a Sino-Japanese conflict only. The German-Euro-British conflict was officially unrelated till the trade sanctions the US had on Japan as a result of the China activities tilted the Empire to launch hostilities. Hitler need not have declared war on the US, as there was little enthuiasm in the US (at the time) to get involved in another european conflict. Americans tend to know little of even recent Chinese History. I spend a lot of time there and have good friends who were greatly affected by the cultural revolution.

My antecedent after whom I am named came to America in 1720 from a small island off the coast of Normandy, I have his sons poweder horn from the French and Indan War. They are all burried in the old mechanics Cemetary in Westfield Mass. My countries demographics are changing, though the cultural outlook and legal system retain their origins. Diversity has been a strength, I hope that it shall remain so and not a liability.

Cheers from Osan Korea: T
 
I think that's a good point on the Sino-Chinese conflict becoming the PTO. I also think that the very size of the theater and reporting on it made some difference. Ernie Pyle went to the ETO originally because it was easier. Getting around the PTO was difficult, getting stories back more so, and as a result.....lot less documentation. Lot less documentation means less printed history.

Don't know, but I can't help but think there was an impact.....

Even now most Americans don't know there was a war in the Aleutians and that the Japanese actually stood on American soil.

Which takes us back to the Zeke.....because the capture of one in the Aleutians led to the F6F!
 
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