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  • Please see the most recent updates in the "Where did the .com name go?" thread. Posts number 16 and 17.

    Post 16 Update

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Paintkits: Help me out here, guys and gals !

Francois said:
There's a problem of course when the modeler is just that.... a modeler, and not a painter :kilroy: One of the reasons so many products these days are made by 'teams' of people, all with specific skills. And a reason why so many products become so expensive, too.

There's pro's and con's to everything I suppose. In any case, good discussion and good information.

Thanks !
Click to expand...

that is so true, and unfortunatly, it is the consumers own doing. Whilst we strive for better products, the payware companies have to employ more people who specialise in these areas, and the cost then goes up.

I myself, still do the modelling, and painting, and the testing, the packaging and releasing, so it can be done as a one man band, just. Yes my priducts are not payware quality, but not far off, and they are free.

Anyway, back to the thread, paintkits NEED to be in layers to be painkits. I have downloaded many kits in the past, that claim to be so, and all you get is a plain white singe layered set of textures. These are fine in such as they give you a black texture, but no use if you want to create complex textures, as you have to re-do most of the panel lines etc as layers.
 
Pretty much everyone has given you the same answer. But here's mine anyway:

1) Full size layered PSD!
2) Because they are not full size layered PSDs!
3) Unless it's a freeware, I will not purchase any product that doesn't come with a paint kit. Carenado aircraft for instance come with blank flat textures. C208B was their one and only product I bought. IRIS C-27J is another example, I'm told there is a paint kit, but it's not full size 2048x2048 and it looks like there will be no more updates for it.

From a customer/painter point of view, it is none of my business why developers chose to do this is. It is my business/decision, however, not to spend my money on their products.
 
Kavehpd said:
. . . . . . .
2) Because they are not full size layered PSDs!
3) Unless it's a freeware, I will not purchase any product that doesn't come with a paint kit. Carenado aircraft for instance come with blank flat textures. C208B was their one and only product I bought. IRIS C-27J is another example, I'm told there is a paint kit, but it's not full size 2048x2048 and it looks like there will be no more updates for it.
. . . . . . . . .
Click to expand...
Aside from my initial post, you're the only other person to mention the size of the textures. I don't think I've seen many (if any at all) paint kits that exceed the FS9 standard 1024x1024 which is useless for quality FSX repaints. Even 2048x2048, which is better, is limited in the amount of detail that can be applied and held once it's converted for the sim. Also, taking a lesser sized layered paint kit and just enlarging it to say 2048x2048 or 4096x4096 is a no-no because, obviously, all you get are "fatter" versions of the original layers that look out of focus and useless for detailed liveries.:salute:
 
This is an interesting thread from the amateur modeller's point of view too. There have been a number of ways devised over the years to map a model and it's no surprise some are more successful than others. However, with the mapping tools in 3ds Max or the .MD3/LithUnwrap method for gmax there's no excuse for inaccurate mapping as long as the modeller takes the trouble to learn them. As an amateur I found modelling quite daunting to learn, then I tried to map the thing and found I had another hill to climb!

I'd say a decent paint kit must include the mapped mesh lines and all the bits should be labelled (on another layer). For the amateur with gmax and LithUnwrap that's actually easy to do since paint programs supporting layers are quite cheap - or free! Paint.NET and Gimp for example. Texture sizes are easily specified at the LithUnwrap stage and they can always be made smaller later if needed, like for FS9. Mine are 2048 for CFS3....
 
I know what a 3DS opr Gmax mesh model looks like..... I have no idea how that translates into a texture sheet? Could you explain, and preferably SHOW that ?
 
Certainly! This is a texture sheet produced with LithUnwrap from the Gmax model and I've attached the original Paintshop Pro X file. All the mesh lines translate to the unwrapped mesh of the model, although obviously they aren't shown on the final painted skin. This is what was sent to the painter who skinned this model for me. Hope this helps!
 
hairyspin said:
Certainly! This is a texture sheet produced with LithUnwrap from the Gmax model and I've attached the original Paintshop Pro X file. All the mesh lines translate to the unwrapped mesh of the model, although obviously they aren't shown on the final painted skin. This is what was sent to the painter who skinned this model for me. Hope this helps!
Click to expand...
Man, that would be so nice if paint kits went to that extent.:applause:
 
hairyspin said:
Certainly! This is a texture sheet produced with LithUnwrap from the Gmax model and I've attached the original Paintshop Pro X file. All the mesh lines translate to the unwrapped mesh of the model, although obviously they aren't shown on the final painted skin. This is what was sent to the painter who skinned this model for me. Hope this helps!
Click to expand...

A prime example for an excellent base for a paintkit.



- Edit:

Texture mapping methodology for GMax:
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/wiki/index.php?title=Texturing_complex_models_in_GMAX
 
The beauty of the mesh layer is that you can see exactly where the modeller built his mesh and you can use that to accurately align the paint. Painting bands that wrap around a fuselage can be a bear to line up if the mesh is in four parts (left side, right side, top and bottom) but if you can see the mesh you know exactly where to paint to on each part.

Likewise for camo paints. If the camo goes along the wing and then wraps over the fuselage in a continuous manner getting the wing to match the fuselage can take literally hours of trial and error without the mesh. With the mesh it's just a matter of finding the point where the meshes align and painting up to that point on each part.
 
Kavehpd said:
Good to know I'm not the only nitpicking anal-retentive painter
Click to expand...
That is a job requirement for every painter (and modeller too for that matter) if you want to be good at it. As always the devil is in the details.

I've spent the last year or so building my first flyable FSX model (I have made hundreds of static models though) and I can't count the number of times I've gone back and re-worked parts and textures because they weren't right. I don't think there is a single part on the plane that has not been re-made or seriously edited at some point.
 
jeansy said:
IMO the main layers that should not be merged are, panel lines, rivets, shadows, grime, decals and details
Click to expand...

Stiz and Jeansy have described what I consider to be a "paint kit". I don't have the skill of some of the artists I've seen here, so I always look for a layered paint kit especially if I'm buying.

I recently wanted to do a repaint of a post war (JF (AH?)) Mosquito and was disappointed to see that the supplied paint kit was pretty useless. I just don't have the time to re-do the panel lines and rivets and I've never really mastered weathering.

If it wasn't for layered paint kits I wouldn't enjoy this hobby half as much as I do.

Nick.
 
Does anybody else use the Windows Snip tool to copy meshes from their modelling program into their paint program?

I used to use the method where you would take a screenshot of the mesh in the modelling program, paste that into the paint program (I usually pasted as a new image), select the part of the screenshot you need, invert the selection, delete, then copy and paste that back into your texture.

Now I just use the snipping tool. All you do is select new, highlight the mesh on screen and then switch to paint program and press Ctrl+V to past as a new layer.

Saves me a whole bunch of button clicking and I reckon I takes me half the time to do it.
 
hairyspin said:
...There have been a number of ways devised over the years to map a model ...
Click to expand...
anthony31 said:
Does anybody else use the Windows Snip tool to copy meshes from their modelling program into their paint program?
Click to expand...

Like I said...

FWIW, that method ties the modeller to planar mapping only, whereas cylindrical mapping is more convenient in suitable cases. But that would make this a modelling thread, not a paintkit discussion so I'll shut up now...:icon_lol:
 
hairyspin said:
Certainly! This is a texture sheet produced with LithUnwrap from the Gmax model and I've attached the original Paintshop Pro X file. All the mesh lines translate to the unwrapped mesh of the model, although obviously they aren't shown on the final painted skin. This is what was sent to the painter who skinned this model for me. Hope this helps!
Click to expand...

I just finished a photo-real paint for Milton, on a mesh layout just like that. The Avia 156 over in the FS9 forum. If someone does not release a layered template set, at a minimum, PLEASE, include the mesh.
 
anthony31 said:
Does anybody else use the Windows Snip tool to copy meshes from their modelling program into their paint program?
Click to expand...

The PRINT SCREEN key and "New file from Clipboard" in Gimp is usually enough in Gmax.

3DS Max eliminates a few steps of this procedure with its "Render to texture" function.
 
I haven't read this whole thread. This response fits in with the first page of discussion.

A good paint kit means there will be a few dozen repaints within the first month or so. And I'll selfishly say that good paint kits are all I have ever produced when I make them from scratch.

A bad paint kit (and I've had to deal with a lot of them that were provided by the modeler and try to make a good paint kit out of them before release) means that after a couple of years there will be maybe one or two repaints made by some diehard fan of that aircraft who had the patience to put up with a multi-layered but still unusable "paint kit".

Over the years I've put together a description of what makes a good paint kit (a set of guidelines if you will) that I give to the modeler when a job starts. But it's more for inhouse use.
:ernae:
 
Frank,

I believe that you may be responsible for the paint kits on some of my favourite Alphasim models so I would like to take this opportunity to say thank you very much for your work over the years.

:applause:

NickB
 
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