.... just file this under "you couldn't make it up"!!
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/ar...ort-details-true-extent-of-f_35-troubles.html
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/ar...ort-details-true-extent-of-f_35-troubles.html
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The Staff of SOH
Whoops! More problems with the F-35 ....
- Thread starter AndyG43
- Start date
Acting Acquisition Czar? How many freaking Czars are there now? Is there a Czar Title Making Up Czar?
Okay...not that I teetered on political.....Czars? Really!.....I hope that the problems with the F-35 can be ironed out and that the US can have a new plane sometime this century. I have never been impressed by the F-22...in my mind it is nothing more than the world's most expensive air show queen, at I wasn't impressed with the F-35...until I watched Battle of the X-Planes and got to see the F-35 in action (very early action). I can now say...I'm impressed with what I saw. Maybe as issues come to light that take away from the plane, my degree of impressed will lessen until I am once again unimpressed.
OBIO
Okay...not that I teetered on political.....Czars? Really!.....I hope that the problems with the F-35 can be ironed out and that the US can have a new plane sometime this century. I have never been impressed by the F-22...in my mind it is nothing more than the world's most expensive air show queen, at I wasn't impressed with the F-35...until I watched Battle of the X-Planes and got to see the F-35 in action (very early action). I can now say...I'm impressed with what I saw. Maybe as issues come to light that take away from the plane, my degree of impressed will lessen until I am once again unimpressed.
OBIO
Wing_Z
Charter Member 2011
In OZ they are calling this bird "The Wonga"
Here's a tongue-in-cheek take on why:
Wonga Pigeon
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1. The Wonga Pigeon is a large, plump pigeon that has a short neck, broad wings, and a long tail.
Pretty close description of the JSF which has never “looked" right.
2. They are very elusive birds and are often only heard, producing explosive wing claps when disturbed.
Many journalists have described the JSF like this, you can’t get close to it, and every now and again you get a loud press kit dished out to shut you up
3. They tend to occur on the ground, foraging…
The JSF spends a lot of time getting fixed instead of flying the full test envelope (Mach 1.0 not Mach 1.6 any more)
4. The call of the Wonga Pigeon is a loud, high-pitched 'coo'. This is repeated over long periods of time for a number of seconds.
See 2. above – plenty of loud, high-pitched 'coo'ing going on, but the targets are not being met.
5. Natural enemy is the fox
In this case, not the Russians and Chinese, perhaps. The Fox lives in Seattle and Chicago and is called Boeing. They would love to get a foot in this door.
Here's a tongue-in-cheek take on why:
Wonga Pigeon
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1. The Wonga Pigeon is a large, plump pigeon that has a short neck, broad wings, and a long tail.
Pretty close description of the JSF which has never “looked" right.
2. They are very elusive birds and are often only heard, producing explosive wing claps when disturbed.
Many journalists have described the JSF like this, you can’t get close to it, and every now and again you get a loud press kit dished out to shut you up
3. They tend to occur on the ground, foraging…
The JSF spends a lot of time getting fixed instead of flying the full test envelope (Mach 1.0 not Mach 1.6 any more)
4. The call of the Wonga Pigeon is a loud, high-pitched 'coo'. This is repeated over long periods of time for a number of seconds.
See 2. above – plenty of loud, high-pitched 'coo'ing going on, but the targets are not being met.
5. Natural enemy is the fox
In this case, not the Russians and Chinese, perhaps. The Fox lives in Seattle and Chicago and is called Boeing. They would love to get a foot in this door.
I have the F-35 on my 2012 "death list". I have feeling that USMC, USN, RAF and RN will be left empty handed at the end of the F-35.
The Navy will have there updated FA-18s but there not much. The Marine Corps will have no replacement for the AV-8 or away to buy one, same with the RAF and RN. What piss me off more is that any one that wanted to buy an F-35B or C won’t get one, they don’t work yet they will have paid for others to get the F-35A.
This whole this is $^*% up! USMC, USN and others paid for the USAF to have ANOTHER advanced fighter to go with the F-22 while they get nothing for it. Than the USAF can buy “stealth up” F-15SE Silent Eagle while other only have stop gap Gen 4.5 aircraft or no replacement aircraft at all.
The Navy will have there updated FA-18s but there not much. The Marine Corps will have no replacement for the AV-8 or away to buy one, same with the RAF and RN. What piss me off more is that any one that wanted to buy an F-35B or C won’t get one, they don’t work yet they will have paid for others to get the F-35A.
This whole this is $^*% up! USMC, USN and others paid for the USAF to have ANOTHER advanced fighter to go with the F-22 while they get nothing for it. Than the USAF can buy “stealth up” F-15SE Silent Eagle while other only have stop gap Gen 4.5 aircraft or no replacement aircraft at all.
I thought they wanted F-35A with drag chutes?
thats not our problem anymore, we sold all of ours to the marines!
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
CG_1976
Ret. US Coastie/RCAF
Yes, but there is trouble ahead as there is no available data or testing for the Arctic. My gut is telling me this one engine F35 will fail under Arctic stress testing and operational testing. The two most successful fighters and defenders of the Arctic were and are the CF101 and CF18. 1 Engine fighters have a bad history up here.
How so? Other than the F-35 as whole is stopped? The F-35A is the only one that seems to be working okay for now.
Well thats no good for you. I would be screeming off with some ones head! I still don't like the the
Marines are flying more or less the Wright Flyer of VTOL aircraft. It 43 years old. The darn plane is cougar!
Harrier is a fine airframe but it could be redesigned again. Todays computers can do better that the 80s redesigned that the Harrier got in the US. Updating with Fly By Wire system would help but you brits know that as the Harrier is your plane.
I know... Like I said. You will have helped build the USAF F-35s to sit next to the F-22s as they will be the USAFs hanger queens. Both will never be used as the cost is too much to keep them flying but for Airshows.
its been updated pretty constantly through its life span so i highly doubt you could compare it to the orig 80s plane, also 43 yrs for a plane is nothing compared to say, the C130 (which again, has been through countless updates)!
CG_1976
Ret. US Coastie/RCAF
This I agree with and that includes the Durable and ever lasting reliable B52.
Yes I know but AV-8B we use is 31 years old. Small updates hav been done but it is time for a new big update that will use evey thing learned form the past 31 years to make the AV-8C better than all past Harriers.
Planes that the US can't replace.
B-52
T-38
U-2
A-10
C-130
AV-8B
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
Well do share cause I look at it one of three ways. 1: The F-35B/C fail and the USAF still get the F-35A. B: The F-35B/C fail and JSF program is killed, No one gets any thing. 3 The US dumps loads of money into JSF and the USAF gets huge numbers of F-35As to be hanger queens and the Navy and Marines get a hand full of costly and useless planes.
personaly i see it seeing through to the end, with a massive amount spent, and with a few countries getting some, but no one getting any in huge numbers. MODs of various countrys have to much money invested allready, it might be stopt once each country who payed in has a few though, or at least, some countrys will pull out. I get a feeling that if all the goverments stopt funding now they'd be hit with a huge premauter contract cancelation! (also at the end of the day, how much of the "problems" are hyped up by the media?? even the p51 and b17 were pretty crap when they were first done!)
Matt Wynn
Charter Member
Replacement for is being sought, 2 most likely ate Kawasaki T-4 and HAWK 128/LIFT Series (The latter being a 5.0G Capable Trainer), HAWK has backing of Northrop-Grumman
Strictly speaking it would have to be the AV-8D, as the -8C designation was used for a warmed over version of the -8A.
I think the updates done to the Av-8B were more than 'small'; the difference between the early AV-8B/harrier GR5s with their relatively austere avionics pack, and the AV-8B+ with the APG-65 is pretty massive - and there are engine improvements in the mix, new weapons etc. It is still damn capable, I'm really annoyed we lost ours so early, but I guess it was a case of priorities and financial urgency.
I've said on here before that I think the F-35B had issues; throwing away the Pegasus concept and going with an untried engine concept in conjunction with lift engines seemed retrograde to me - maybe I'll be proved wrong in the long run. But when I saw that report about the problems with the -C model my jaw dropped; considering how long this aircraft has been in development, they get something as fundamental as the arrestor hook position wrong!! Let's hope that structurally there is a better place to put it, otherwise you are talking a major redesign.
Personally I'd love to see the Royal Navy get Typhoons for it's new carriers, and the RAF get their fleet bulked out; Eurofighter did build enough structural integrity in to take an arrestor hook (and vectored nozzles, if necessary) - but political imperatives will see our Government follow this one through until the bitter end, unless the Pentagon pulls the plug. Why does the word "Skybolt" keep going through my head?
Matt Wynn
Charter Member
i agree here... Typhoon is structurally sound for Carrier ops, main gear is dine, nose gear would need some work, i think BAe said it'd be initial catshot onto a ramp originally for Naval Typhoons, if thats the case expect an extending nosewheel (like the Rafale), India is considering the navalised Typhoon too if i recall...
i'll hit up my contact at BAeSys for some info.... :salute: