Question on Ferrying Military Jets

[Bone]

Operation Arc Light, the B-52 bombing campaign in Vietnam and Laos that was the predecessor to Linebacker, and Linebacker II. Same thing, just different names.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Arc_Light

 

[robertorizzo]

Guys,
THREADS LIKE THIS MAKE SOH DIFFERENT.
And saying this i do not refer exclusely at the subject, but also at polite and professional way everyone gave its contribute.
Thanks and please keep it open forever.

 

[TeaSea]

Well, you just jinxed that!

 

[Skyhawk_310R]

It's true. We had our latest reunion in October at the USAF Museum, and Keith was able to bring the painting from the Pentagon, so we had it in the hospitality suite with us. Very impressive. First time many of the pilots had seen it. After the reunion, he offered to make digital prints on canvas (they look and feel just like the oil painting) for people in the squadron. So, I ordered one for my father's Christmas present, and then I got one for myself. I will post pictures when it gets back from the framer.

I've also made a DVD of the deployment from old 16mm air force footage (they had a camera crew on hand for all stages of the deployment), as well as some excellent photos that Keith took from the backseat of the Phantom. Narration is done by one of the jocks. I've given copies to all pilots and families in the squadron -- trying to figure out how to get it on Youtube. Most of the aircraft commanders are in their late 70s, GIBs 10 years younger -- so my job is to handle all of the computers and technology related to the reunions.

That's quality stuff right there, man! A very valuable project to protect vital aviation history! The deployment of the F-4E did more to re-establish and maintain air superiority over Vietnam than any other single action carried out during the war. It was a vital part of making Linebacker II the success and turning point in the war that it became, and established the primary basis for the North Vietnamese to agree to the terms of the Paris Treaty.

Ken

 

[skyblazer3]

The 469th that took the first F-4Es to SEA were a pretty special bunch of guys. They were all hand-picked from across the Air Force by the squadron Commander, Ed Hilding. Hilding took guys he had known as great pilots during his time in service. He chose my father as D flight commander, because Hilding had served with him in Bitburg back in the 1950s. One flight commander even had a MiG from Korea. Hilding had flown in WWII. Many of the aircraft commanders were either experienced fighter-pilots, or people who had shown great talent at the fighter weapons school or in RTU. Unlike most squadrons, the GIBs in the 469th were all pilots, many with fighter experience. They trained together for a complete year in Florida before the deployment, and then they flew combat together for a year -- these guys were tight-knit. They knew one another's capabilities, they knew they could trust each other in combat long before they deployed. I imagine this is what it is like in Air Guard units.

These guys were trained as Mig Killers, they were the first F-4 squadron with an on-board gun, and they meant to put it to good use. Sadly, there was a bombing-halt in October, just before they deployed, and they spent their tour hunting trucks and AAA in Laos. They were extremely effective with the new Dive-Toss system of bombing in day and night conditions -- but they really felt like their job should have been going north to kill Migs. I remember the A flight commander saying, "There was a 469th before us, and a 469th after us, but there was never a 469th quite like us." It was the job of later incarnations of the squadron to go north and provide air-cover -- but those pilots did not have the fortune of knowing each other for two years (or longer in the case of pilots who had flown together on previous assignments). I don't know of any other fighter squadron that had a year book. These guys still get together every 2 years, to every 1.5 years to remember their time in Florida and SEA.

Lucky SOBs.:salute::salute:

 

[AusWilko]

skyblazer I am reading on and off along with other books on my kindle sitting on planes going to and from work every week to 2 weeks a book called Once a Fighter Pilot by Jerry Cook and just reading what you have written it reminds me of the book.

 

[Bone]

It's true. We had our latest reunion in October at the USAF Museum, and Keith was able to bring the painting from the Pentagon, so we had it in the hospitality suite with us.

From all you've ever told me about your dad's air force career, I have to say he really did have an unusually charmed career as compared to most air force guys. He had the luck of the shamrock with him, no doubt.

Because this thread brought up the Keith Ferris aspect, I went online to see if I could get a glimpse of the F-4E print you were talking about. Lo and behold I saw a B-52D painting he had done of B-52D 55-0094. I called my dad, and it turns out he had flown that particular plane in combat over there. Even though it came from the 99th BW (which wasn't my dad's wing), once it got to southeast asia it became part of the "Provisional" bomb wing. The provisional bomb wing was created to accomodate all the crews which had come from different wings, into one fighting unit once they arrived from the states.

 

[Bjoern]

...

Thanks, man!

This is very true!

One of my more memorable flights was non-stop from Hurlburt Field to Ali al Salem, AB, Kuwait in an MC-130E. I recall we had five inflight refuelings to make that trip, and brother it was a LONG day and night and day!

From what I've heard about flying in a Herc, you can't catch much sleep in there if you're not used to it. Or is the noise more bearable with ear protection? (I guess you can't quite shut off the vibration)

Also, are there relief crews on board (as on the very long flights in the civvie world) or do they fill a wing tank with coffee for these flights?

 

[skyblazer3]

http://www.keithferrisart.com/search_result_image.asp_Q_Product_ID_E_022LinebackerintheBuff

Is this the one bone?

it's a nice print.

 

[Bone]

http://www.keithferrisart.com/search_result_image.asp_Q_Product_ID_E_022LinebackerintheBuff

Is this the one bone?

it's a nice print.

Yeah, that's the one. Mr Ferris did his bomber sortie in November 1968, the month he flew in with your dad's F-4E squadron. He must have seen those beautifull big black bombers sitting on the ramp.

 

[PRB]

In April of 1983, VA-94 became the first single-engine tactical squadron to “trans-pac”, when they departed NAS Cubi Point, Philippines, for NAS Lemoore, CA, with Guam, Wake, Midway, and Hawaii as waypoints. They flew with two Navy C-9s filled with maintenance people, tools, and spare parts. One C-9 would depart early, arrive at the next waypoint before the A-7s got there so they could perform post-flight and turn-around inspections. The other C-9 flew with the Corsairs, fixed any maintenance issues after landing, and launched the planes to their next waypoint. Don’t know what tanker support was involved in this flight, but there must have been some. I know USAF aircraft squadrons do not have their own maintainers assigned, so I guess any maintenance that was required would have been done by the people already assigned to those bases. Just a guess though.

 

[Skyhawk_310R]

Thanks, man!





From what I've heard about flying in a Herc, you can't catch much sleep in there if you're not used to it. Or is the noise more bearable with ear protection? (I guess you can't quite shut off the vibration)

Also, are there relief crews on board (as on the very long flights in the civvie world) or do they fill a wing tank with coffee for these flights?

I didn't drink a drop of coffee on that flight, but others on the crew did. We did have an augmented crew, one additional navigator and additional pilot and we rotated in and out of the seats. But, in terms of any sleep, I got to the point where I could sleep on the Herc because I got used to the constant engine sounds and I wore ear plugs. But, I confess that I probably got only a couple of hours sleep in what I recall was 36 plus hours in the air!

By the time we got to Kuwait, I lost all concept of day of the week -- it had no meaning! I think I basically lost an entire calendar day of my life on the planet due to the change in dateline heading east!

Ken

 

[Skyhawk_310R]

From all you've ever told me about your dad's air force career, I have to say he really did have an unusually charmed career as compared to most air force guys. He had the luck of the shamrock with him, no doubt.

Because this thread brought up the Keith Ferris aspect, I went online to see if I could get a glimpse of the F-4E print you were talking about. Lo and behold I saw a B-52D painting he had done of B-52D 55-0094. I called my dad, and it turns out he had flown that particular plane in combat over there. Even though it came from the 99th BW (which wasn't my dad's wing), once it got to southeast asia it became part of the "Provisional" bomb wing. The provisional bomb wing was created to accomodate all the crews which had come from different wings, into one fighting unit once they arrived from the states.

It's a bloody small world we live in, isn't it?

Ken

 

[Bone]

It's a bloody small world we live in, isn't it?

Ken

Yes it is, Ken, and then there was a couple of trips I had with a First Officer who knows you from your MC-130 days, lol. I liked the story about dropping the Daisy cutter in Afghanistan, with Brits on the radio saying the Yanks just nuked the place.

 

[kilo delta]

Yes it is, Ken, and then there was a couple of trips I had with a First Officer who knows you from your MC-130 days, lol. I liked the story about dropping the Daisy cutter in Afghanistan, with Brits on the radio saying the Yanks just nuked the place.

Hardly surprising!

[YOUTUBE]RfHHDwDWZwg[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Bjoern]

I didn't drink a drop of coffee on that flight, but others on the crew did. We did have an augmented crew, one additional navigator and additional pilot and we rotated in and out of the seats. But, in terms of any sleep, I got to the point where I could sleep on the Herc because I got used to the constant engine sounds and I wore ear plugs. But, I confess that I probably got only a couple of hours sleep in what I recall was 36 plus hours in the air!

The human ability to sleep about anywhere with some amount of getting used to the environment is amazing.

But I guess it must've been frustrating on a Herc. You nap for one or two hours and you still haven't crossed France.

By the time we got to Kuwait, I lost all concept of day of the week -- it had no meaning!

Welcome to software developing world.

I think I basically lost an entire calendar day of my life on the planet due to the change in dateline heading east!

Wouldn't you've gained it back on the return leg?

 

[Skyhawk_310R]

The human ability to sleep about anywhere with some amount of getting used to the environment is amazing.

But I guess it must've been frustrating on a Herc. You nap for one or two hours and you still haven't crossed France.



Welcome to software developing world.



Wouldn't you've gained it back on the return leg?

Oh thanks! Way to rub it in there, big guy! LOL!!

In terms of gaining it back, the trip back was in multiple legs as I recall, so it wasn't the same. But, I sure enjoyed the pint of Strongbow at the Bird in Hand outside Mildenhall!

Ken

 

[Bjoern]

Oh thanks! Way to rub it in there, big guy! LOL!!

S-s-ssstrike!

In terms of gaining it back, the trip back was in multiple legs as I recall, so it wasn't the same. But, I sure enjoyed the pint of Strongbow at the Bird in Hand outside Mildenhall!

...and the barrels of ale in the cargo hold...

 

[strykerpsg]

From what I've heard about flying in a Herc, you can't catch much sleep in there if you're not used to it. Or is the noise more bearable with ear protection? (I guess you can't quite shut off the vibration)

I don't know about the aircrews ability to sleep, but I personally always slept well on any of the cargo birds, but especially the 130's, with their constant vibration to be very relaxxing. The only time not so enjoyable is when they were flying contour flying and while very exciting to see the huge beasts thrusting about with ease, didn't make for very comfortable sleep. Admittedly always used ear plugs unless jumping, but even when jumping, found the circuit flying to be very calming. On the longer distance flights, the aircrew always allowed you to sprawl out a bit and sleep on the deck, which made the flights hugely much more bearable, so thanks to the airlifter crews.

Matt

 

[PRB]

I've never flown in a C-130, but our USAF shipmates often transport us Navy types about (and we thank you! :salute, and everyone I have ever spoken to who has flown in Hercs speak of them with the same loathing and contempt. Loud, cold, and uncomfortable seems to the the universal complaint. I have flown in a C-141 though, from Clark AFB (Philippines) to Diego Garcia, and again from Masirah to Diego G. They were ok. Slept most of the way. No windows. Navy S-3 has more comfortable seats. And better windows...