• There seems to be an uptick in Political comments in recent months. Those of us who are long time members of the site know that Political and Religious content has been banned for years. Nothing has changed. Please leave all political and religious comments out of the forums.

    If you recently joined the forums you were not presented with this restriction in the terms of service. This was due to a conversion error when we went from vBulletin to Xenforo. We have updated our terms of service to reflect these corrections.

    Please note any post refering to a politician will be considered political even if it is intended to be humor. Our experience is these topics have a way of dividing the forums and causing deep resentment among members. It is a poison to the community. We appreciate compliance with the rules.

    The Staff of SOH

  • Please see the most recent updates in the "Where did the .com name go?" thread. Posts number 16 and 17.

    Post 16 Update

    Post 17 Warning

SU-37/35 flight model update..

warchild

warchild

Charter Member
I had to think about making this post long and hard. Paul has been extremely busy working on both the SU-37 and the Grumman Duck. The problem I and the Jade Island crew ran into was with the FS9 su-33 gauges malfunctioning in FSX. The Afterburner would click on irregardless of where the throttle was.

SO, we scrapped our friend of the past four years. To replace it, i chose the ALS-Sim SU-27 visual model and adjusted my flight model to work with it. This isnt permanent. No way. JohnC and Berndt did a fantastic job on the flight model considering the time they had and i would never wish to take any of the credit away from them that they so richly deserve. But with where my flight model was at for the terminator, I seriously needed a stand in and frankly theirs is the very best available. Well worth the cost if you ask me.

But you see, FSX is a box. Its a trap, and this plane lives outside the box. It demanded that i work outside the box as well. Paul ( Delta558 ) and i are currently re-inventing the way FSX uses the config files. SO far we have successfully created canards that work in unison with the elevons and a kind of kluge for vectored thrust. I honestly didnt believe I had succeeded on either score till i removed those entries from the aircraft.cfg file.. Gods what a mess that turned out to be. The plane configured as a normal fsx plane was all over the place. It was ugly. So i added the entries back in and heh, it worked..

The kluge for the vectored thrust doesnt work as well as the canards, but it does provide a foundation that will function correctly for anyone that has the courage to program vectored thrust in.

Once Paul has his SU-37 to a point where he is comfortable with it, we'll transfer the flight model over to it, but until then, theres a lot of work to be done.

We have almost achieved super maneuverability. The plane is stable and easy to control throughout all maneuvers, but, the flight model just isnt there yet. The remainder of the construction will be more invention, quite a bit of study and learning ( mostly on air file tables ), and hopefully, some plain old dumb luck.


I'll put up a video in the morning. My video skills arent very good but i hope you'll find it enjoyable. Also i want to show off this beautiful plane from the folks at ALS-Sim. It really is a beautiful plane to fly and look at..

Pam
 
dear Pam

I am long away from FDE making(L-1649 a nightmare because of its blended wing profile's) but I think to remember that for a correct canard function the AOA characteristics of the wing need to be illegally altered to allow higher AOA due to the changed onstream because of the canards(we tried a dummy FDE for the Alpha Rutan).

After all Su-37 can fly highest AOA today known as far as I recall

Best regards

Roland
 
Your absolutely correct Roland, but, FSX deals with it. we dont have too.. All we have to do is define the canard and FSX does the rest..
Let me show you something that will leave you thinking i'm the craziest old broad that ever graced the planet earth, but i swear on my entire reputation as a flight modeler, it works..

[airplane_geometry]
wing_area = 666
wing_span = 48.17
wing_root_chord = 18.62
wing_dihedral = 0.000
wing_incidence = 0.000
wing_twist = 1.000s
oswald_efficiency_factor = 0.657
wing_winglets_flag = 0
wing_sweep = 42.000
wing_pos_apex_lon = -34.58
wing_pos_apex_vert = 1.2882
htail_0_area = 20.275
htail_area = 85.000
htail_0_span = 20.590
htail_span = 32.590
htail_0_pos_lon =-27.06
htail_pos_lon = -60.06 //-27.06
htail_0_pos_vert = 1.2882
htail_pos_vert = -2.136
htail_0_incidence = 0.000
htail_incidence = 0.000
htail_0_sweep = 47.000
htail_sweep = 40.000
vtail_area = 124.700
vtail_span = 12.29
vtail_sweep = 30.000
vtail_pos_lon = -48.18 //-11.666
vtail_pos_vert = 1.500
aileron_0_up_limit = 45.000
aileron_up_limit = 20.000
aileron_0_down_limit = 45.000
aileron_down_limit = 45.000
aileron_0_area = 20.275
aileron_area = 67.000
rudder_area = 37.670
elevator_0_area = 47.520
elevator_area = 47.520
elevator_0_pos_lon = -27.982 //-60.06
elevator_pos_lon = -60.06
elevator_0_up_limit = 45.000
elevator_up_limit = 45.000
elevator_0_down_limit = 45.000
elevator_down_limit = 45.000
rudder_limit = 33.000
elevator_trim_limit = 35.000
spoiler_available=1
spoiler_limit = 43.000
aileron_to_spoileron_gain = 5.000
spoiler_handle_available = 1
min_ailerons_for_spoilerons = 5.000
min_flaps_for_spoilerons = 10.000
spoilerons_available = 1
auto_spoiler_available=1
spoiler_extension_time=0.650000
positive_g_limit_flaps_up=25.000000
positive_g_limit_flaps_down=14.000000
negative_g_limit_flaps_up=-9.000000
negative_g_limit_flaps_down=-6.000000
elevator_area=0.000000
elevator_up_limit=27.501974
elevator_down_limit=20.626481
aileron_area=0.000000
aileron_up_limit=19.480565
aileron_down_limit=14.896903
htail_incidence = 0.000

Now. its true that in the .air file, i pushed a lot of other calculations to their extreme. I wont tell you how many times i threw away one fde after another because of it. its been four years on one fde.. thats a long time, but, this plane aint normal.
Paul and i have studied video after video. the canards operate independently of each other, and can also act independently of the elevon. My flight model isnt quite so sophisticated though. Well, I dont think it is. But, if you remove any of the above elevator_0 or aileron_0 lines from the config file, the plane becomes unmanageable. I'll be honest, I dont understand it yet either. And frankly, the flight model has had a very humbling effect over the years. I'm terrified of where it may take me to make it right.
Mostly the plane consists of a multitude of precise and interconnected values ( balances? ). the trick is knowing which values are the key values that the other values hinge upon. Its a set of balances unlike anything i've ever seen ( Except maybe in Bushido ).
I think, that it can be likened to the bolshoi ballet. In Classic Russian Ballet precise body angles are demanded of the dancer. It not only appears cleaner, but also puts the body into a position that is more correct for moving to another movement with the least amount of effort, and the greatest amount of grace.
Pam

PS. Roland..
Making Flight models can be spectacularly self rewarding. If you have an interest in trigonometry, geometry and calculus ( which to be honest, i didnt when i started. I hate math ::lol:: ) and love airplanes, its a greet side hobb. Just start with a conventiional craft, like a piper or a cessna. Learn about the moving centers of lift, and the difference between the center of balance and the center of gravity. Later on you can learn the difference between diameters of arc, such as when a convention aircraft performs a loop, the center of that loop is the anchor point for the arc that it is following, but in the SU-37 the loop is contained within the circumference of the longitudinal and latitudinal axis' which allows it to literally flip over backwards without changing flight direction. Its amazing the stuff you can learn and use.. It can be a bit lonely though...
 
sinanziric said:
Well it's morning in Europe, we are waiting for video... :icon_lol::icon_lol:
Click to expand...

:::LOL:: Please have patience.. I have not recieved permission from ALS-Sim to display the aircraft while usding my flight model yet, and to be honest, the video is still compiling ( three hours later... sigh ). I promise i'll have it up just as soon as I can..
Pam
 
Dear Pam

Tried it on the Su-34(bad compromise) and I dont have your air file.But shows unbelievable turn in(and a narrowest margin to fall out of sky)

On the L-1649 the challenge was(as the engine boys allowed no compromise) to really get the range without any side-effects(like the plane never slow down on descent).I arived at final version 48(and cheated a bit with a drag gauge)

Looking forward to your Sukhoi and dont forget the Sukhoi quote "Anytime,anywhere"

Roland

(I have an (old) aerodynamic degree from university.What you say about the FDE making-->Bolshoi with more dancers-->I can sign off 200%)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top