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  • Please see the most recent updates in the "Where did the .com name go?" thread. Posts number 16 and 17.

    Post 16 Update

    Post 17 Warning

How to practice SID's, ODP's, STAR's in FSX is it possible?

S

sinanziric

Members +
I would like to practise departures, approaches on some airports.

I fly VOR to VOR VFR but now i want to practise SID departure, STAR approaches, i have no idea
how to do this in FS..anyone doing this to give me a hint?

Does AI follow SID's, STAR's on bigger airports?

Is there addon with Aiport maps for FS?


Cheers.
 
heres a few.. Perhaps the hardest thing is learning to read them.. You may want to stop at your local airport and pick up the pilots handbook. its not too expensive, and will help immensely..

Pam

http://www.dauntless-soft.com/products/simplates/

http://simcharts.jeppesen.com/help/SIMCharts_in_FSX.htm

http://www.airwx.com/products/avcharts-for-ipad/?gclid=CITH_7eOqq4CFQN8hwodjAGrQg ( yes, you can use real charts for flight sim, just not the other way around )

http://www.fsstation.com/tutorials/approachplates.html

http://www.navigraph.com/www/default.asp

http://fswidgets.com/screens/efb2004/

regarding ai and airports. AI flight paths depend entirely on the developer who set up the flight path. They may or may not follow a given sid or star. Most airport approach/departure plates would be identical to real life approach plates. Thats why sometimes if you fly for as VA, you'll find a route that requirtes a specific Sid or star, which would show something like sonic5 in the flight plan, but all you will find listed online is Sonic6. thats because sids and stars are constantly updated. Fly the newest numerical of a sid or star and you usually wont go wrong.
 
Ms Warchilds advice is excellent, and as she pointed out you may need to do a bit of boning up to understand and apply the procedures. Just remember that the intent is, to expedite the departure of traffic from a particular controlled space while maintaining spacial separation and control in the process. Everything generally falls into place if you keep that in mind.

Since the ATC in the Sim is understandably somewhat limited in options, you will find you have to do some good flight planning on the departure legs to get you moving through the departure. You will need to know the procedure, and route yourself accordingly in the IFR plan. Add the intersections as needed, and since you've stated you use the VOR, make sure you don't inadvertently plug in a point that's RNAV focused.

Also, in real life ATC may drop you from the departure at any point and send you on your way (which is their mission), so if you miss something or start arguing with the Sim, just remember how realistic that is.

I was quite please to see you ask this question. I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one who did this sort of thing.
 
sinanziric said:
I would like to practise departures, approaches on some airports.

I fly VOR to VOR VFR but now i want to practise SID departure, STAR approaches, i have no idea
how to do this in FS..anyone doing this to give me a hint?

Cheers.
Click to expand...

And when you're feeling confident at the SID's and STAR's for a particular route, [I admit I haven't done this for a long while now] join an org. like Vatsim or IVAO and fly online with live ATC... gulp! :salute:
 
Dave Torkington said:
And when you're feeling confident at the SID's and STAR's for a particular route, [I admit I haven't done this for a long while now] join an org. like Vatsim or IVAO and fly online with live ATC... gulp! :salute:
Click to expand...

heh Yeah i know for VATSIM org. but im still afraid somehow.. i want to practise alone, later who knows :wiggle:
 
SID/STAR departures/approaches are somewhat difficult with the default ATC, but Radar Contact 4 has a limited SID/STAR capability. You'll have to choose them during the route planning and can't change them afterwards to account for any sudden changes due to traffic or weather.

It might be okay for training though.
 
warchild said:
heres a few.. Perhaps the hardest thing is learning to read them.. You may want to stop at your local airport and pick up the pilots handbook. its not too expensive, and will help immensely..
Click to expand...

I not too long ago dropped in at a local pilot school at CYNJ to see if they had any old charts. I came away with a huge amount of stuff for all over N.America. Just need to talk nice.
 
One thing i forgot to mention. I have been told that in reality the majority of the time, real world pilots will plan on a certain star to fly, but as they contact the destination ATC, they will be vectored away from that star. and guided in via a different route. I dont know how true this is, but flight sim has always done this to the sim pilot.
Pam
 
warchild said:
I have been told that in reality the majority of the time, real world pilots will plan on a certain star to fly, but as they contact the destination ATC, they will be vectored away from that star. and guided in via a different route. I dont know how true this is, but flight sim has always done this to the sim pilot.
Pam
Click to expand...

The majority of the time? Not true. The majority of the time you fly the STAR that was given to you in the original clearance, because that's what the traffic management computer has decided. It has the, ahem, "big picture". The traffic feed for a STAR starts many hundred's of miles away from the destination airport, and traffic is converging on that airport from the East, North, South, and West concurrently. The traffic merge is coordinated long before the planes get within talking distance of the destination ATC, so changing a STAR is not done unless it's really neccesary. A reason to change would be cases of very bad weather that's popped up over the STAR route, and they need to siphon planes off to another feed.

There are cases where they give you a speed reduction, or an off course vector because of high traffic sauturation during certain periods. That is done all in the interest of managing the traffic flow. Also, after getting vectored, you may be cleared direct to a fix that's somewhere downline on the STAR, not neccesarily the next fix you would have gone to had you not been given the vector. While it's true that STARS do have a transition fix which will link you directly to a point on an instrument approach, that is rarely done. Approach control will give you a vector at some point on the STAR to get you to the approach course.

I'm based out of Atlanta Hartsfield, which has the notoriety of being the worlds busiest airport. I'm kind of mortified you guys think doing STARs is fun, lol.
 
Don't doubt that at all, but in my little GA airplane in the Tampa Bay area, I've never completed any filed plan, departure, or arrival. It's usually modified pretty quickly.
 
OK, right, TeaSea...sorry, I see where you're coming from. It's easy for me to forget that so many around here have a frame of reference that is more aligned with light GA ops. Light GA ops wasn't the end-user in mind when SID/STARS were concieved, and they aren't really applicable to light GA ops, where the point of origin is more apt to be on one side of town, and the destination is to the other side of town. SID/STARS are there to manage the high density traffic flows to and from the Flight Levels, and to/from long distances out. A piper going from Tampa to Clearwater isn't going to experience the IFR environement in the same way. The catch 22 here is that light GA aircraft are the only choice for a civilian to learn about IFR flying, but you don't really learn what it's all about at that level, you just get exposed to a few parts.

The IFR system in general is there for military and commercial operators, and they get the full treatment. Light GA isn't going to see the system work as it was intended.

.:icon29:
 
Maybe a good and fast way to learn SIDS & STARS and how to Fly them could be to buy a payware aircraft with good FMC and fly it while keeping jeppesen charts aside
 
robertorizzo said:
Maybe a good and fast way to learn SIDS & STARS and how to Fly them could be to buy a payware aircraft with good FMC and fly it while keeping jeppesen charts aside
Click to expand...

iFly, ARIANE or PMDG? which one got better FMC (most complete) ? and which plane...to buy? i don't really care is it 737, 747... i just want better one :)
 
Ifly? PMDG? CapSim?....(Wilco Airbus MCDU+enhancement?)

Actually I'm flying Capsim 767 in FSX, when in FS9 i had PMDG 747 and it was good too. (Wilco Airbuses MCDU is another thing). I can't say which suits best for you, but, follow my thinkings:
- you could walk on the fast pathway as i said, in a few time you'll be able to practice sids and stars, more or less like any well trained monkey could do, or simply an AI could do, without knowing why and for what reason, or
- you could do it the hard way, simply...thinking. Attention, I'm not saying **** (read that f...ng manual) but i strongly recommend you one of the tutorials that changed my simmer life some years ago when i felt in love with old propliners. This changed me from a digit key pushing monkey to an (almost) aviator. The road back to modern era (digit key pushers) airplanes is a sweet downhill.

For you. http://www.calclassic.com/files/Propliner_Tutorial_2008.zip

Zivio.

Roberto.
 
Hey folks, I created this flight plan KORS-KHQM on the FTX flight plan forum as an IFR brushup. It doesn't matter if you have FTX scenery or not, as the approaches themselves do not change with the scenery.

With all the glass cockpits, fancy autopilots, I think we tend to get a little lazy when it comes to IFR nagivation I planned up with a good GA trip that will let pilots practice their IFR navigation skills. This is for those who are beginners as well as experienced.

Aircraft recommended: A good GA aircraft that you are comfortable hand flying on instruments. Somthing slow and simple would be best for beginners. The aircraft should have the usual navigation equipment such as VOR and ADF. If no DME available, use GPS as DME source for DME required approaches Have a timer handy either in the VC or somewhere within reach on your desk for those holds
smile.png
.

For navigation go to www.skyvector.com. Type KORS in the entry window and press 'GO' Switch chart modes to Enroute L-1.

Feel free to print out any of this if you do not have dual monitors.

This is a suggested route designed to cover various IFR navigation techniques. Feel free to shoot the other approaches at the airports enroute as well.

Takeoff from KORS using published DP.
EASTSOUND, WA
ORCAS ISLAND (ORS)
AMDT 1 09351 (FAA)
TAKE-OFF MINIMUMS:
Rwy 16, NA-Terrain. Rwy 34,
500-3 or std. w/ min. climb of 224' per NM to 600.
DEPARTURE PROCEDURE:
Rwy 34, climbing right
turn to 2000 to intercept HUH VORTAC R-210 to HUH
VORTAC, then climb-in-hold (hold South, Left turns,
352° inbound) to cross HUH VORTAC at or above 3800
before proceeding on course.
NOTE: Rwy 34, trees beginning 330' from DER, 411' left
of centerline, up to 120' AGL/139' MSL.

At HUH Fly the KBLI ILS 16 Approach(including proceedure turn). Circle to land if if winds favor other runway. Do a touch and go or taxi back.
http://tiles.skyvect...f/00045IL16.PDF

Depart KBLI using the KIENO4.PAE departure proceedure.
http://tiles.skyvect.../00045KIENO.PDF

At PAE, fly the KPAE VOR/DME16R...try out the DME Arc for a good challenge. Fly Missed approach proceedure. (touch n go if winds favor 16R)
http://tiles.skyvect.../00142VD16R.PDF
Hold at PAE until at MEA or desired cruising alt.

From PAE, proceed outbound on the 236 Radial(V287) to the LOFAL intersection.

At LOFAL, fly the KPWT NDB 01 Approach
http://tiles.skyvect...pdf/05107N1.PDF
Fly missed approach proceedure.(touch n go if winds favor 01)

From the PWT NDB, proceed to CARRO Intersection as noted on the NDB01 approach

If GPS Equipped fly a GPS approach noted below. Otherwise proceed outbound on the V27 to KHQM and fly approach of your choice.

At CARRO, fly published holding pattern while listening to KSHN ASOS on 119.275.
Proceed to fly either GPS 05 or GPS 23 depending on wind report at KSHN
http://tiles.skyvect...pdf/06643G5.PDF
http://tiles.skyvect...df/06643G23.PDF
Fly Missed Approach back to CARRO.

From CARRO fly V27 toward HQM. Fly Approach of your choice to KHQM.
http://skyvector.com...owerman-Airport


Enjoy
Cheers
TJ
 
Bone said:
OK, right, TeaSea...sorry, I see where you're coming from. It's easy for me to forget that so many around here have a frame of reference that is more aligned with light GA ops. Light GA ops wasn't the end-user in mind when SID/STARS were concieved, and they aren't really applicable to light GA ops, where the point of origin is more apt to be on one side of town, and the destination is to the other side of town. SID/STARS are there to manage the high density traffic flows to and from the Flight Levels, and to/from long distances out. A piper going from Tampa to Clearwater isn't going to experience the IFR environement in the same way. The catch 22 here is that light GA aircraft are the only choice for a civilian to learn about IFR flying, but you don't really learn what it's all about at that level, you just get exposed to a few parts.

The IFR system in general is there for military and commercial operators, and they get the full treatment. Light GA isn't going to see the system work as it was intended.

.:icon29:
Click to expand...

I'm afraid I made the assumption that sinanziric was in GA only....certainly in a tubeliner with a hard schedule your mileage may vary.

Incidentally, I used FSX quite a bit when I started to train for an IFR certification. It's a hell of a lot cheaper to learn this way than in the cockpit. I also would typically run back through a difficult approach on the computer after a lesson. Sort of reinforced what I'd learned.

:icon29: Back at ya'.

Pilottj, I'll give a couple of your plans a work out.
 
TeaSea said:
Incidentally, I used FSX quite a bit when I started to train for an IFR certification. It's a hell of a lot cheaper to learn this way than in the cockpit. I also would typically run back through a difficult approach on the computer after a lesson. Sort of reinforced what I'd learned.

.
Click to expand...

Well, FSX is certainly a great little instrument trainer, no question about that. But when I said "The catch 22 here is that light GA aircraft are the only choice for a civilian to learn about IFR flying, but you don't really learn what it's all about at that level, you just get exposed to a few parts" I was talking about real IFR flying. There is no way to simulate real IFR flying, it must be done for real, lol.
 
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