Was it true?

[peter12213]

I watched "The Red Baron" on Film4 last night and one of his flying circus I forgot the name had a Bentley engine in his Tri-Decker, was this true? I've looked online but theres a lot of debate, what do you guys think, the film is awesome pretty hollywood but the flying sequences and choice of aircraft make it quite good also they do include Udet and Goering, however no mention is made of thier achievements only the working relationships to Richtofen during WW1.

Edit.. I actually thought I posted this in the General discussion page, sorry!

 

[stiz]

considering the other inaccuracies riddled through out that film i highly doubt that any frontline fokker triplane ever had a bently engine in.

 

[Ferry_vO]

First time I've heard that story..

Replacing the Oberursel Ur.II (LeRhone 9J) with a Bentley BR.1 would add 40 hp but also add 40 kilo to the front of 400 kilo aircraft... Not sure if that would fly very well!

The only other Bentley rotary is the 230-245 hp BR.2 which is another 42 kilos heavier (220 kilo, more than half the empty weight of a Dr.I!) and would probably flip the Dr.I over with it's nose into the ground.

And how would the Germans obtain a British engine? Perhaps if they'd force an aircraft to land, but I don't think there's much of a rotary engine to recover after a crash impact.

 

[jeansy]

its no different to the bullets found in him, the fatal gunshot wounds say he was shot from below not behind him, but the movies says he was shot down by an aircraft

 

[CodyValkyrie]

its no different to the bullets found in him, the fatal gunshot wounds say he was shot from below not behind him, but the movies says he was shot down by an aircraft

Arthur Brown has been credited by the RAF for downing him, but there is evidence to suggest otherwise. The official story however gives Brown credit for the kill.

 

[jeansy]

Arthur Brown has been credited by the RAF for downing him, but there is evidence to suggest otherwise. The official story however gives Brown credit for the kill.

Its funny how theres always 2 sides to a story, the medical examiner's evidence that is displayed at the Australian War Memorial suggested the Australian troops that fired on him killed, but being under British Command the credit was given to a British Officer, as "Colonial troops weren't able to do such a thing"

You would be hard pressed to find many books even mentioning that even such a thing happened, even the fact that he was given a gun carriage funeral with the highest honours was given by the Australians was neglected by many British historians at the time

anyway before someone says its a consistency argument, lets get back on track to the main topic

 

[Shane Strong CYHZ]

Author Brown was Canadian

• Country: Canada
• Rank: Captain
• Service: Royal Naval Air Service
• Royal Air Force Units:
• 4 Naval, 9 Naval, 11 Naval (RNAS) 209 (RAF)
• Victories: 10
• Date Of Birth: December 23, 1893
• Place of Birth: Carleton Place, Ontario
• Date Of Death: March 9, 1944
• Place of Death: Stouffville, Ontario
• [FONT=arial, sans-serif]Maybe they all shot him which wasn't a good outcome from his point a view [/FONT]

Its funny how theres always 2 sides to a story, the medical examiner's evidence that is displayed at the Australian War Memorial suggested the Australian troops that fired on him killed, but being under British Command the credit was given to a British Officer, as "Colonial troops weren't able to do such a thing"

You would be hard pressed to find many books even mentioning that even such a thing happened, even the fact that he was given a gun carriage funeral with the highest honours was given by the Australians was neglected by many British historians at the time

anyway before someone says its a consistency argument, lets get back on track to the main topic

 

[warchild]

I tend to agree with the findings mentioned in the link below. The folks at Nova did a pretty decent study of it all..

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/military/red-baron-theories.html

and yes, it was most likely the Australian and not Brown ..

 

[stiz]

at the end of the day we'll never know for sure

 

[warchild]

at the end of the day we'll never know for sure

Truer words have never been spoken..

 

[Dain Arns]

We can eliminate The Beagle from the theory mix...
(Still love his loop after all these years)

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rNremK0cBEg?rel=0" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>

 

[Bone]

I watched it last week, and I quite enjoyed it even though some parts were a little far fetched. The funeral fly-over where they dropped the wreath into the English pilot's grave, being one of them. Lol.

 

[TeaSea]

Despite the debate, it would have been quite reasonable to award the kill to Brown. He was after all engaged in air to air combat with the most dangerous man in the skies. He was in pursuit of his target at some risk to himself from both enemy aircraft and friendly ground fire, and also in a good position to make the kill. I do not see that as some sort of slight to the "colonial" forces, although I suppose if you carry a chip on your shoulder you can expect to have it knocked off.

At odds with Brown killing Richthofen was that the Baron was apparently still in pursuit of Lt May after Brown fired his burst. Next thing at odds is the angle of the entry and exit wounds in Richthofen's body. Since no postmortem was performed that involved opening the body (the angle of entry and exit was determined with a piece of wire--hardly best practice) the guess of the surgeons on site is at odds.

I think the consensus now is that SGT Popkin's ground fire killed Richthofen, but it hardly matters. Richthofen was only in position due to his pursuit of Lt May, and if he noticed Brown or not, the aerial combat between the three brought him to the range of Popkin's's gun.

 

[TeaSea]

Despite the debate, it would have been quite reasonable to award the kill to Brown. He was after all engaged in air to air combat with the most dangerous man in the skies. He was in pursuit of his target at some risk to himself from both enemy aircraft and friendly ground fire, and also in a good position to make the kill. I do not see that as some sort of slight to the "colonial" forces, although I suppose if you carry a chip on your shoulder you can expect to have it knocked off.

At odds with Brown killing Richthofen was that the Baron was apparently still in pursuit of Lt May after Brown fired his burst. Next thing at odds is the angle of the entry and exit wounds in Richthofen's body. Since no postmortem was performed that involved opening the body (the angle of entry and exit was determined with a piece of wire--hardly best practice) the guess of the surgeons on site is at odds.

I think the consensus now is that SGT Popkin's ground fire killed Richthofen, but it hardly matters. Richthofen was only in position due to his pursuit of Lt May, and if he noticed Brown or not, the aerial combat between the three brought him to the range of Popkin's's gun.

BTW, Richthofen was only 26 when he was killed.

 

[warchild]

I'm going to quote history books here.. The flyover is lame, but, reality, as you'll see would be much harder to believe today..

" A British officer wearing a black armband led the funeral procession. Behind him marched an honor guard of 13 Australian soldiers, their rifles reversed. In a crude wooden coffin on the back of a British tender Captain Manfred Von Richtofen was carried to a grave in France.

The Allies buried their German nemesis with the honors due his rank and with approbation that was remarkable after four acrid years of war. Late in a sunny April afternoon the cortege made its measured way from an Australian airdrome, to which Richtofens body had been brought the previous day, through the budding country side to a small cemetery ringed with poplar trees, near the city of Bertangles. The casket was laden with wreaths sent in tribute by nearby Allied squadrons; Allied aviators were his pallbearers.

At the cemetery, an Anglican chaplain conducted the buriasl service. Three volleys were fired and a bugler played ""The Last post"".

Richtofen had fallen 11 days short of his 26th birthday. Seven years after the war, his body was disinterred and carried through Germany on a ceremonial train to a hero's burial in Berlin"

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