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  • Please see the most recent updates in the "Where did the .com name go?" thread. Posts number 16 and 17.

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LCM-3 Landing boat pilotable, have a question

roger-wilco-66

roger-wilco-66

Administrator
Staff member
Hi,

inspired by the PT boat thread I thought I'd make the static LCM-3 pilotable, which I made for the Solomon scenario. I animated the front ramp in GMAX and a friend, Erwin Welker, did his thing on the cameras and other eye candy as well as making it pilotable.
I have one question though, maybe one of the ship people here can answer it. When the boat moves, the front (sorry, bow) tugs slightly under. I feel it should be the other way around. Is this behaviour controlled by a parameter in the aircraft.cfg?
Maybe the settings originally came from an airplane, where the front oleo gets compressed when accelerating or something like that.

Thanks,
Mark


lcm3-pilotable-animated.jpg
 
I'm going to take a wild stab at it here..
Theres a couple things ( both in the contacts section of the config file ) that control behavior on water or land. The first thing your going to want to look at is the placement of your first pair of floats which should be located to either side of the lower part of the ramp. once those are in place, you'll want to experiment with entries 8 9 and 10 for the float entries to adjust stiffness compression and rise. Dont be surprised if at first your boat ends up at 30000 feet. Just make a change and reload the boat. right now you nly have (as it appears ) one set of floats on there. A second set up front will help not only with the balance of the boat, but with steering as well..
 
Floats

Floats can have a light assigned to them so you can locate them exactly where you want them. Looks like this:

[Lights] //For cnt pt alignment
//Gear
light.0=3, 6.660, -2.000, -1.400, fx_navgre,
light.1=3, 6.660, 2.000, -1.400, fx_navgre,
light.2=3, -7.600, -2.200, -1.400, fx_navgre,
light.3=3, -7.600, 2.200, -1.400, fx_navgre,
//
//Floats
light.4= 3, 6.480, -2.500, -1.800, fx_navred,
light.5= 3, 6.480, 2.500, -1.800, fx_navred,
light.6= 3, -7.400, -2.600, -1.800, fx_navred,
light.7= 3, -7.400, 2.600, -1.800, fx_navred,

You can use these (temp) and change/move by turning lights on ('L' key) and put in SLEW, and press F4 and quickly press '5' key to stop. Then press the 'P' key to 'HOLD' it where it is (ie: joy move will not move it) and use joy to look under boat and take scrn shot and save a jpg showing red lights for gear and green lights for floats. The position, of course is determined by value of lon/lat/vert in (cnt_pts) section.

[contact_points]
//GEAR
point.0=1, 6.660, -2.000, -1.400, 999500, 0, 1.500, 40.0, 0.440, 3.5, 0.800, 1.000, 1.000, 0.000
point.1=1, 6.660, 2.000, -1.400, 999500, 0, 1.500, 40.0, 0.440, 3.5, 0.800, 1.000, 1.000, 2.000
point.2=1, -7.600, -2.200, -1.400, 999500, 1, 1.500, 0.0, 0.440, 3.5, 0.900, 1.000, 1.000, 3.000
point.3=1, -7.600, 2.200, -1.400, 999500, 2, 1.500, 0.0, 0.440, 3.5, 0.900, 1.000, 1.000, 0.000
//FLOATS
point.4=4, 6.480, -2.500, -1.800, 14500, 0, 0.500, 0.0, 0.100, 4.5, 1.000, 0.000, 0.000, 4.000
point.5=4, 6.480, 2.500, -1.800, 14500, 0, 0.500, 0.0, 0.100, 4.5, 1.000, 0.000, 0.000, 4.000
point.6=4, -7.400, -2.600, -1.800, 14500, 0, 0.500, 40.0, 0.100, 4.5, 1.000, 0.000, 0.000, 4.000
point.7=4, -7.400, 2.600, -1.800, 14500, 0, 0.500, 40.0, 0.100, 4.5 1.000, 0.000, 0.000, 4.000
//
max_number_of_points=14
static_pitch=0.000
static_cg_height=1.865 //o=0.000 (THIS IS WRONG and is NEVER '0.000' for static height)
gear_system_type=0

Notice that the float location values are LESS (ie: are 'inside' the 'gear' locations) in all dimensions. Also notice that the static_cg_height is MORE then the vertical pos of gear (value wise, but positive). Idea is to 'place' the boat/ac in air and not underground/underwater on loading. You will also notice the compression values for gear and floats are different. These values work PERFECT (for Donzi, Zodiac, etc). And GEAR is included ONLY to allow/qualify the ac to use PUSH BACK. Otherwise if no gear, then no push back! OK? OK! And also NOTICE that the REAR (and ONLY REAR) set of FLOATS has steering, and is ALL that you need. The 'shoot to 3000 ft is caused, by incorrect 'static_cg_height' entry. To set back down (if it 'flys' off) hit 'Y' key (slew) and then F1 (down,fast) to place, then 'Y' key and quickly hit F1. Any questions? (hehe).
Chuck B
Napamule
 
ya dont need gear chuck.. you just gotta set up your engines and propellers correctly and use reverse. Just remember that water is 748 times denser than air so smaller props are a plus..
 
Thanks guys (and gals), will try the suggestions.
That stuff is new to me, sounds like rocket science and fun.

Cheers,
Mark
 
Quote: 'And GEAR is included ONLY to allow/qualify the ac to use PUSH BACK. Otherwise if no gear, then no push back! OK? OK!'

Otherwise you (NOT ME) will be there until a week from Sunday trying to make it (piston) do reverse by using prop parameter tweaks, etc. Not my bag to struggle. 'Simple' works for me (emphasis on 'works'). You do not have to USE the gear. If you slide onto a muddy bank you simply use 'Shift+P' to slide it back into the water. That's all that's 'involved' here. Now what could be more elegant than that?
Chuck Ba
Napamule
 
Since the ramp is functional and beaching the LCM is part of it's operation, the virtual gear makes sense to me. I think that once it is beached it would not be possible to slide it back into the water just by reversing (without push-back). Or would it?

Cheers,
Mark
 
Mark,
I know! The LCM's job involves it beaching itself, so the 'push back' feature should be 'perfect' for it. But, I guess some simmers are purists and that is not practical, sometimes, when there is no VIABLE alternative for backing up. The 'gear' is not visible, and does NOT have to be extended, for push back to work. But, if you do want to move on land, you can extend and with full throttle able to move about, but is totally optional.

And Pam did not 'start' anything. This 'water' and 'boat' and 'floats' and 'water rudder', and 'float compression', etc, issues have never been ironed out by anyone in the past. There is only a 'workable' version of parameters to use / not use and that's been it. Nothing solid. So this is way overdue. Waaaaaay overdue, IMHO. But there may have to be some changes to 'mind set' about what best parameter/tweaks to use so it will all work as 'real', and work well ALL the time, irregardless of how you 'hold your mouth' (hehe).

The prior post with the cnt pts section is not the 'best' set for anything. It was intended to give some idea of what it takes to make 'good' floats. I have a good cnt pt set for the Zodiac. And a good cnt pt set for a 'jet' engined Donzi (speed demon!). Also have worked on other type of water craft too over the years. Query me with model name and I might just have a cnt pts set that you can try (will post to media fire) or just post zip in post.
Chuck B
Napamule
PS: Mark. Can't find the LCM-3 model anywhere. I would like to have it so I can work on it with you. Is it possible? Thanks for your time.
 
Warhawk1130 said:
See what you started, Pam? ....good deal!
Click to expand...

Yeahh yeahhh ::chuckles:: ya see, I grew up litterally on the Illinois river ( always on it or in it.. to hell with the family and home ), so there were always these huge barges ( some nearly a mile long ) and a few paddle wheelers as well as lake michigan being just up the road with all its lake boats ( 1000 foot long ore carrying monsters ). I feel i know what you can do with a bioat and a prop :).. I suppose i could be wrong, but not very damned likely..
Set minimum reverse throttle to 1.00. you'll pull that boat off the beach, at a very respectable 3 knots.. :)
oh well..
wheels work too.. I'm jut old fashioned and cant see wheels on a boat is all..

View attachment 84237
 
Playing with the PT boats, if I hit the beach at 5 knots, or less, the boat would ground fine. Even the limited reverse I have was enough to back off.
Yeah, a few times I came in too hot and had to use the "Y" pushback. ;)

The only wheels that were ever attached to one of my boats were "Michigan Wheel"...Don

This is what happens when ya take a boat on a long, dry, excursion.

View attachment 84240
 
napamule said:
[...]
PS: Mark. Can't find the LCM-3 model anywhere. I would like to have it so I can work on it with you. Is it possible? Thanks for your time.
Click to expand...

Not yet released, but very close. The static model is part of the Solomon V2 beta.
Erich is working on some additional features now. We'll release it soon.
I tried the parameters you posted, Chuck, but the bow still tugs under when accelerating. I'm a bit lost about what to do to prevent that.


Cheers,
Mark
 
Engine Position

Mark,
That would be the vertical position (ie: the '-1.250' value):

[GeneralEngineData]

engine.0=-5.000, -1.500, -1.250
engine.1=-5.000, 1.500, -1.250

Where you place the forward floats would make a difference too. If too far ahead of the actual 'nose', and the compression is 'soft', the nose would do that. You have to put the cnt pts (floats) under the model (longitudial position). Then adjust the 'span' (lateral) and the 'depth' of rear floats (vertical). The forward floats span can be less than the rear floats. And for super stiff floats (which is what you want) set the 8,9,10 values to: '0.100, 4.5, 1.000'. You set floats from the center, and with less lon and lateral than the gear would be. I think this 'tweaking' is as much fun as the actually 'flying' of the model. And I consider this (tweaking) as 'playing'-and not working. I do it every day (for 10 years now) and never get tired of it. I still learn every day. There is so much to tinker with, it would take another 10 years before I could say 'I am finish with Flight Simulator'.
Chuck B
Napamule
I got the Solomon scenery. Ha!
 
LCM-8

Mark,
Well, I got the LCM-8 Helicopter Tender so I put it in FSX and made cnt pts for it. It may be bigger than the LCM-3, but it will give you an idea of what it might take to make the 'float' part work. It has gear (retractable- retracted is the 'default' state). Try this mods out and see if it works. We need to get this Navy ship-shape just in case 'problems' develop with you-know-who (hehe).

LCM-8 Heli Tender

[WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE]
max_gross_weight= 25000.000
empty_weight= 13500.000
//Useful Load= 11500 Lbs (Fuel=200 Gals/1320 Lbs)(Bal=10180 Lbs)
reference_datum_position= -5.000, 0.000,-2.000
empty_weight_CG_position= 0.000, 0.000, 0.000

[contact_points]
point.0=1, 23.29, -13.30, -2.20, 12500, 0, 1.0, 40.0, 0.25, 2.5, 0.80, 2.0, 2.0, 0, 0.0, 0.0
point.1=1, 23.29, 13.30, -2.20, 12500, 0, 1.0, 40.0, 0.25, 2.5, 0.80, 2.0, 2.0, 2, 0.0, 0.0
point.2=1, -18.99, -15.50, -2.25, 12500, 1, 1.0, 0.0, 0.25, 2.5, 0.80, 2.0, 2.0, 3, 0.0, 0.0
point.3=1, -18.99, 15.50, -2.25, 12500, 2, 1.0, 0.0, 0.25, 2.5, 0.80, 2.0, 2.0, 9, 0.0, 0.0
//
point.4=4, 22.59, -11.00, -1.69, 12500, 0, 0.5, 0.0, 0.40, 1.1, 1.00, 0.0, 0.0, 4, 0.0, 0.0
point.5=4, 22.59, 11.00, -1.69, 12500, 0, 0.5, 0.0, 0.40, 1.1, 1.00, 0.0, 0.0, 4, 0.0, 0.0
point.6=4, -18.99, -13.20, -1.88, 12500, 0, 0.5, 30.0, 0.40, 1.1, 1.00, 0.0, 0.0, 4, 0.0, 0.0
point.7=4, -18.99, 13.20, -1.88, 12500, 0, 0.5, 30.0, 0.40, 1.1, 1.00, 0.0, 0.0, 4, 0.0, 0.0
//
static_pitch= 0.400
static_cg_height= 2.50
gear_system_type=0

Chuck B
Napamule
 
Thanks Chuck for the help, Mark should be back on line in a few hours. The LCM is a really cool look craft. I am sure once Erwin Welker makes it pilotable, we will all have fun with it. Everyone's help is greatly appreciated.
 
napamule said:
Mark,
Well, I got the LCM-8 Helicopter Tender so I put it in FSX and made cnt pts for it. It may be bigger than the LCM-3, but it will give you an idea of what it might take to make the 'float' part work. It has gear (retractable- retracted is the 'default' state). Try this mods out and see if it works. We need to get this Navy ship-shape just in case 'problems' develop with you-know-who (hehe).

LCM-8 Heli Tender

[WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE]
max_gross_weight= 25000.000
empty_weight= 13500.000
//Useful Load= 11500 Lbs (Fuel=200 Gals/1320 Lbs)(Bal=10180 Lbs)
reference_datum_position= -5.000, 0.000,-2.000
empty_weight_CG_position= 0.000, 0.000, 0.000

[contact_points]
point.0=1, 23.29, -13.30, -2.20, 12500, 0, 1.0, 40.0, 0.25, 2.5, 0.80, 2.0, 2.0, 0, 0.0, 0.0
point.1=1, 23.29, 13.30, -2.20, 12500, 0, 1.0, 40.0, 0.25, 2.5, 0.80, 2.0, 2.0, 2, 0.0, 0.0
point.2=1, -18.99, -15.50, -2.25, 12500, 1, 1.0, 0.0, 0.25, 2.5, 0.80, 2.0, 2.0, 3, 0.0, 0.0
point.3=1, -18.99, 15.50, -2.25, 12500, 2, 1.0, 0.0, 0.25, 2.5, 0.80, 2.0, 2.0, 9, 0.0, 0.0
//
point.4=4, 22.59, -11.00, -1.69, 12500, 0, 0.5, 0.0, 0.40, 1.1, 1.00, 0.0, 0.0, 4, 0.0, 0.0
point.5=4, 22.59, 11.00, -1.69, 12500, 0, 0.5, 0.0, 0.40, 1.1, 1.00, 0.0, 0.0, 4, 0.0, 0.0
point.6=4, -18.99, -13.20, -1.88, 12500, 0, 0.5, 30.0, 0.40, 1.1, 1.00, 0.0, 0.0, 4, 0.0, 0.0
point.7=4, -18.99, 13.20, -1.88, 12500, 0, 0.5, 30.0, 0.40, 1.1, 1.00, 0.0, 0.0, 4, 0.0, 0.0
//
static_pitch= 0.400
static_cg_height= 2.50
gear_system_type=0

Chuck B
Napamule
Click to expand...

except for the x,y,z coordinates he should be able to copy and paste the data on the contact points straight from what you posted.. those are excellent values and will give the boat a nice realistic feel, without popping up on step..
 
I have to dig p the footage and pics from the old harddrive, we where tasked to escort 2 of them plus 4 Higgins boats back to cairns after the filming of the tv series the Pacific up in nth qld au
 
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