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OT: VERY SAD NEWS
- Thread starter skyhawka4m
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FleetingThought
Members +
I believe you mean "snuffed out," the way a candle would be snuffed out by a candle snuffer.
delta_lima
Charter Member 2015
Yes, I absolutely am sad that their families are experiencing deep loss, and no, I generally am not for legislating forms of entertainment - if they do not affect either the public safety, the public purse, or are morally offensive - then it follows that some folks will choose hobbies of potentially idiotic proportions.
That said, there is something wrong with a "DNA" that equates the commitment to entertainment with ones service to ones country. The premise of any stunt is predicated on garnering a crowd (however small or large) to watch at some point. You aim to be the object of attention and admiration. That's in total contrast to what serving in uniform. You undertake discipline, personal deprivation, and risk for your fire team partner, your unit, your country, etc. - sometimes all, sometimes just one. But in the decade I wore a uniform, the very few I met foolish enough to do it for personal pre-eminence either washed out, injured out, or worse.
'Hate to say it, but just because it has wings doesn't mean it necessarily has a special, exalted state. It could just be yet another form of self-indulging entertainment. To me, then, the risks taken are neither noble, nor inspiring. They merely speak to the extent to which the participants pursued the crowds' adulation they received over the years.
DL
PS - this whole thread is probably more a "News" item then "FSX", no?
warchild
Charter Member
ok, so no more mountain climbing. No more car races, no more flying at all ( passenger planes go down far more often than entertainers ) no boating ( boats sink all the time ) no nothing except sitting at home breathing, unless you want to go kill people because their government has a different idiotogy.. In my opinion sir, we shuld all be still born in that case..
delta_lima
Charter Member 2015
C'mon Pam ... you can do better than "slippery slope" ...
My main point was to say that just because both military flying and stunt flying are "thrilling" - it doesn't follow that both serve an equal purpose. I am not in the least saying that a measure of living on the edge has no value. For what it's worth, I'm an avid mountaineer and more recently, enjoying off-road motorcycling ...
It also strikes me that every kid in the western world wants to sing, dance, or otherwise "perform" their way to fame. The networks, production, and so-called "talent" industries are mushrooming in size - but our ability to sustain even basic means of economic production - what actually sustains a middle class economy - is disappearing.
So, do I think there's anything wrong with a guy looping around in a biplane? No - but I'm simply making the observation from the general sentiment in this thread which reflects how emphatically we assert the values of entertainment and self-indulgence. Food for thought - here's what far brighter minds than mine have to say on this ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusing_Ourselves_to_Death
:ernae:
DL
I am not equating wing walking with military service. But living in norfolk va, I have known a few fighter pilots. And yes, I think they choose that particular military career partially due to the excitement factor. They are the ultimate professionals, but I think they enjoy the excitement too. There are probably those on this site to speak for themselves, but this has been my impression of my personal friends.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
When it comes to flying I prefer to be IN the plane and not ON the plane, but I understand what motivates folks like Jane Wicker and other aviation daredevils past and present. When I was a teen I watched "Wild Bill" Fornof perform at air shows in his hot F8F Bearcat. I figured the odds were pretty good that Wild Bill was not going to die of old age, and I was right. Something's gonna kill ya, may as well have it be what you enjoy doing. We'd live in a much more dangerous world without the people who take risks for public safety and national security, and we'd live in a much more boring world without the people who take risks for our entertainment.
heywooood
Mayor Emeritus of Taco City
When I see a wing walker act (or similar 'performance') - I imagine I am watching someone who is so at peace with their mortality, that they can do something so obviously enjoyable and exciting as climbing out of an airplane in flight for the ride of their lives - totally accepting of the possible consequences and with no other reasonable obligations to restrain them for prudence' sake.
And - in the case of a wing walker act - that I am observing a pilot who is so self assured and confident of his ability and his aircraft and support team, that he is willing to fly such a mission over and over again. As part of a tandem that is so reliant on each other as to supersede all other kinds of relationships between two separate people. That reliance on each other where life itself is wagered and is itself the prize for success.
That's what I like to think of when I watch such an event - the positive aspect of it.
What I sometimes fear is that these people are unwell - they have loved ones and dependents who need them but are themselves hopelessly addicted to the need to please others - total strangers - with complete disregard for the consequences of the odds-on and inherent danger of this behavior - wanting, in moments of clarity, to change for safety's sake - but totally powerless to do so
When I am in my dark mood this is what I think might be what that's about. But I am learning to listen less and less to those thoughts these days and give people the benefit of the doubt.
I would not like to see an end to mans willingness to challenge his own mortality - or - in acceptance of it (instead of the usual blind fear of it) to see expressions of real, primal celebration of that acceptance and the pure joy of living hard in the moment - like standing on the top wing of a beefeater Stearman in full throat at 25' off the deck in front of a crowd not of beer guzzling, knuckle dragging ambulance chasers - but cognizant, understanding, intelligent people, who know exactly what it is they are witnessing - and enjoying that moment right there with them....now that's seeing both sides of the coin that life is (heads / tails = life / death) all at once.
You cant have one without the other.
Still - these events unfold in front of children and that IS a problem... we do not train our kids on mortality - we shield them from it completely and for good reason - they are not ready to deal with it
And - in the case of a wing walker act - that I am observing a pilot who is so self assured and confident of his ability and his aircraft and support team, that he is willing to fly such a mission over and over again. As part of a tandem that is so reliant on each other as to supersede all other kinds of relationships between two separate people. That reliance on each other where life itself is wagered and is itself the prize for success.
That's what I like to think of when I watch such an event - the positive aspect of it.
What I sometimes fear is that these people are unwell - they have loved ones and dependents who need them but are themselves hopelessly addicted to the need to please others - total strangers - with complete disregard for the consequences of the odds-on and inherent danger of this behavior - wanting, in moments of clarity, to change for safety's sake - but totally powerless to do so
When I am in my dark mood this is what I think might be what that's about. But I am learning to listen less and less to those thoughts these days and give people the benefit of the doubt.
I would not like to see an end to mans willingness to challenge his own mortality - or - in acceptance of it (instead of the usual blind fear of it) to see expressions of real, primal celebration of that acceptance and the pure joy of living hard in the moment - like standing on the top wing of a beefeater Stearman in full throat at 25' off the deck in front of a crowd not of beer guzzling, knuckle dragging ambulance chasers - but cognizant, understanding, intelligent people, who know exactly what it is they are witnessing - and enjoying that moment right there with them....now that's seeing both sides of the coin that life is (heads / tails = life / death) all at once.
You cant have one without the other.
Still - these events unfold in front of children and that IS a problem... we do not train our kids on mortality - we shield them from it completely and for good reason - they are not ready to deal with it
Odie
Charter Member
The past 2-3 airshows at Oceana NAS featured a wingwalker segment and if memory serves, one particular segment had the wingwalker a/c pairing up with a helo. Very dangerous work, but performed
in a professional manner to the delight of the crowd. Sad to see such an accident occur.
in a professional manner to the delight of the crowd. Sad to see such an accident occur.
Skyhawk_310R
Charter Member
It's dangerous. People who do it are brave. I know it's a cliche, but both pilot and wing-walker Jane died 'doing what they loved'.
We salute them. R.I.P.
Brave?
I don't know. I know you meant only the positive and I'm in no way attacking you for posting this. I've just been stewing over this mishap since it happened and I guess this prompted me to finally put fingers to keyboard.
For me, bravery is someone doing something they know is very risky to their lives, yet they do it anyway because they are trying to save lives. Soldiers do this because they aim to save the lives of their buddies, or win a war to save the lives of their countrymen. Firemen and police do this to save other citizens.
I think it is time for civilian pilots to do a bit of soul-searching. I know lots of civilian pilots perform in airshows, but I also know the level of practice required for teams like the Thunderbirds and Blue Angels to do what they do and yet in rare times, both of these teams have suffered terrible mishaps. Your average civilian pilot has full time jobs other than flying airplanes. In this mishap the wing walker was a full time employee of the FAA.
I seriously wonder whether the burdens of a full time job combined with the needs of family leave sufficient time to maintain the proficiency of skills necessary to perform these kinds of very risky flight maneuvers that airshows often require. Now that the DoD demonstration teams are mothballed in a political decision masquerading as a budget decision, the pressure on civiliam pilots to perform is only increased simply to keep the airshows alive. It's a difficult situation for everyone.
What these people are doing is strictly for entertainment. To put it bluntly, I never want to see people die in order to entertain me or anyone else! That walk across the highwire across the Grand Canyon was just another example of things I really don't like to see take place.
Ken